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TennesseeTuxedo

If Socialism Is The Answer....Why???????

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26 minutes ago, GOAT9 said:

This is false and it is explained in the Wealth of Nations, which is pretty much the Holy Bible of Classical Economics and Capitalism. 

when you tell me what i said is false... and then you point to a publication written at the time capitalism is formed - written by a fervent capitalist...

without actually saying what is incorrect in my statement... 

 

well you arent helping. just quoting a book title to sound intelligent. 

 

 

ooh!!! Maybe i should quote Marx and then you'll believe everything about socialism too!!! 

Edited by titanruss

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17 hours ago, Legaltitan said:

I'm totally with you here.

 

I'm not sure where you are going in the second part, as you seem to be suggesting we shouldn't tax corporations at all. That doesn't really make any sense, unless you jack up taxes on shareholders.  I mean yeah, I'm with you that you can't eliminate the incentive for people to make money and pay taxes, but if take away all of corporate taxes it doesn't matter how big the pie is.

 

The biggest problem I have with the tax system is the inefficiencies it creates and rewards. This latest tax bill, which was passed under the lie of simplifying the tax code, did no such thing. Yeah for working stiffs it simplified things because there is no longer any benefit to itemizing deductions. But it is a joke to say it simplified things. Any idiot knows how to plug in his charitable contributions and his mortgage interest into turbotax - that's not where the complexiuty in the tax code is. But the rubes ate it up, because most people can't fathom how utterly and completely complex the tax code is and the corporate transactions that take advantage of and exploit the tax code. It is enormously complex. Not only to most lawyers not understand it (I sure as hell don't and I graduated near the top of my class from Tulane), most TAX LAWYERS don't understand it. You know who understands the tax code? My best friend from law school, Ethan Yale. Last I checked he was a professor at Georgetown Law now. That guy was the valedictorian of our class, and tax law gives him a hard-on. He did a year clerkship for a 5th Circuit Court of Appeals judge, and then his first real lawyer job was at the preeminent transaction corporate tax firm in New York, Wachtel Lipton. This was almost 20 years ago, in 2000, and his salary as a first year lawyer was $150,000+, and he got a 100% bonus. So the dude made over $300k his first year, 20 years ago. Because he is a badass and he eats that shit up.

 

So back to my point, the tax code encourages very inefficient economic decisions, because corporations employ armies of Ethan Yales that bill $1,000 an hour to find the hidden secrets in the tax code and unlock them like a fucking puzzle in an escape room. The new tax bill actually made some of that stuff MORE , not less complex. It ought to be called the Lawyer Full Employment Act. Almost everything corporations do is tax driven, rather than driven by pure economics.

 

Find a way to fix all of that, and tax corporations in a straightforward manner (like a flat tax sort of deal - this is what you pay, period), or totally go to a consumption tax (like the Fair Tax or whatever) to capture that economic activity in a different way. Raising their tax rate will do nothing. They will call up Ethan Yale and just pay him to find a way around it.

The tax bill that passed vs. the one that was proposed during the campaign were light years apart; and it was all done behind closed doors without any oversight or real debate.

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8 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Not really. You apparently don’t understand how SS works. I’m paying for your SS, just as you paid for my predecessors. It isn’t a bank account. It’s a socialist concept to protect the elderly. 

I understand how it works. Congress takes the money that I earned and uses it to fund their pet projects. They leave empty IOUs in the SS box.

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8 hours ago, Downtown said:

This is misinformed and incorrect. You're just buying into propaganda that wants to end SS as an "idea." Show me the year in recent history (20-30 years)  where the trust fun dispersed more money than it took in. Can't find the data? Here it is in all its glory:

 

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/transactions.html

 

The boomer problem is real if Republicans insist on mismanaging an investment account over politics, but all that is needed for SS to thrive in the future is an income cap to be lifted (currently at $128,700) and it will thrive well beyond 2034. 

 

I don't think you understand what a Ponzi scheme is.

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1 hour ago, OILERMAN said:

I saw a report showing just how many of the super rich get their money from inheritance. Obviously the vast majority of millionaires are self made, something like 85%. Being an actual millionaire isn't a huge deal. There are quite a few posters who are in that status. 

 

This report was more about the really wealthy. Depending and what range you looked at it was anywhere from 45-63%. These are deca millionaires and up into the 100s of millions. They've never worked and did nothing to create this wealth. 

 

It also talked about how guys like Romney and Trump have bragged about being self made. Romney says his dad only gave him a mill worth of stocks and Trump claims his father only gave him a 1 mill loan. Obviously Trump is full of shit but assuming these two are telling the truth the idea that only getting 1 mill makes them self made is laughable. Our own CTF obviously was born into wealth and bragged about selling a business, even if that was true he would have never been in that position if not for the simple fact of what he was born into. 

 

It's just hilarious seeing these labels of "socialist" etc.... when the rules and laws are completely slanted towards a bunch of super rich people, half of which, never did a damn thing to get this money. 

 

 

The easiest way to make money is to already have a lot of money

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Downtown   
2 hours ago, ben4titans said:

 

I don't think you understand what a Ponzi scheme is.

And now I know you don’t have any clue what a Ponzi scheme looks like. 

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Bink   
13 hours ago, LongTimeFan said:

Holy shit, you don't even know what capitalism is. What are you, 17? Pick up a book.

 

Definition of capitalism

: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

How can you call anyone 17 when you bust out the fucking Webster's dictionary clapback? You should pick up a book bro, because the only thing you have contributed is to demonstrate your ability to use the bold feature to highlight generalizations. 

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GOAT9   
19 hours ago, titanruss said:

when you tell me what i said is false... and then you point to a publication written at the time capitalism is formed - written by a fervent capitalist...

without actually saying what is incorrect in my statement... 

 

well you arent helping. just quoting a book title to sound intelligent. 

 

 

ooh!!! Maybe i should quote Marx and then you'll believe everything about socialism too!!! 

Everything in your statement is incorrect. "Absolute Capitalism" is Adam Smith's vision in his books and is what Capitalist ideals are derived. Profit Motive (Called Pursuit of Self-Interest by Capitalists) is only 1 part of an integral multi-part system. Hoarding money is not the goal of Capitalists. That is Mercantilism. The goal of Capitalists is to create the most amount of wealth possible. A person pursuing their own interests will make the most efficient use of the resources available because that is what will result in the most wealth creation for them. Hoarding money is not profitable. Capitalists instead, invest their money in capital to create profitable businesses that will then create more wealth. 

 

The idea that Capitalism ignores morals, and social responsibility in order to hoard money is  also false. Adam Smith took morals, ethics, and social responsibility into account. His book prior to Wealth of Nations, was Theory of Moral Sentiments and is referenced in Wealth of Nations to address these issues. "Absolute Capitalism" does in fact believe in a Limited Government role that oversees Fair Market Practices and Public Works. 

 

One such specific example is Universal Education which Adam Smith says "For a very small expence the publick can facilitate, can encourage, and can even impose upon almost the whole body of the people, the necessity of acquiring those most essential parts of education." Pursuing moral obligations is valued by Capitalists because it is beneficial to the individual's self interests. 

 

As far as quoting Marx goes. Considering Karl Marx work is a critique of the concepts derived from Adam Smith. And you cant grasp the concepts conveyed by Smith. Why should anyone bother to think you can somehow grasp the Concepts of Marx?

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10 hours ago, Bink said:

How can you call anyone 17 when you bust out the fucking Webster's dictionary clapback? You should pick up a book bro, because the only thing you have contributed is to demonstrate your ability to use the bold feature to highlight generalizations. 

Actually, everything I have highlighted is facts. Bible quotes and definitions. Verifiable information. You and the other liberal douchebags just throw around your echo chamber diarrhea.

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Bink   
48 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

Actually, everything I have highlighted is facts. Bible quotes and definitions. Verifiable information. You and the other liberal douchebags just throw around your echo chamber diarrhea.

Lol you are so fucking dumb. 

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Yall clutching your pearls over "socialist" universal Healthcare are the same ones who cheer and clap when Trump uses Stalin's phrase "enemy of the people" to describe the free press. 

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so terrifying. 

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