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9 Nines

Do you think aliens exist?

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Number9   
1 hour ago, Little Earl said:

Certainly is possible, but I highly doubt it.   The universe is not big to God, as he made it.   The Bible indicates that the whole creation groans under the weight of sin, and that eventually God is going to destroy it all and create a new heaven and earth.   Furthermore God created us with a very special purpose, so important that he lowered himself into a man and allowed himself to be tortured and killed as a sacrifice to atone for our sins.   Do think God is doing that in billions of other worlds?  

I don't know.  Humans are so different that it makes me think God is into diversity.  So, every creation of so called man would not be the same.  God is unlimited, so making a billion worlds is nothing more than the wink of an eye.  When we try to describe God, we limit God.  Earthlings are so, so ego-cententric.  We believe an omnipresent being has limitations, as in does he have time to be God of a universe with billions upon billions of intelligent life forms.  That kind of thinking makes us special, not God.  We are so important God doesn't have time to deal with problems, answer prayers for the rest of the universe.

 

That's blasphemy!  

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T-RAC   
1 hour ago, Number9 said:

We are so important God doesn't have time to deal with problems, answer prayers for the rest of the universe.

 

That's blasphemy!  

Well, if God killed his son here, you'd think that would move Earth into the top tier of importance at least.

 

Unless Jesus has to go die on every planet with intelligent life. Man, that would get old after a while.

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Number9   
6 minutes ago, T-RAC said:

Well, if God killed his son here, you'd think that would move Earth into the top tier of importance at least.

 

Unless Jesus has to go die on every planet with intelligent life. Man, that would get old after a while.

LOL!!  Remember, God doesn't age, has not conception of time as a limitation and is always the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow.  That's why christians more than anybody should believe in extraterrestrials.  If God is now and always has been forever and the earth is just a few thousand years old, think maybe God wasn't making some planets with intelligent life forms?  To believe different if just ignorant which is what man has demonstrated a proficiency in being since he first breathed air on this planet.

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Soxcat   

The fact is that nobody knows so to assume anything is just ignorant.  God's ways are higher than our ways so I try not to think of a bunch of what ifs or what should be, could be. 

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3 hours ago, Little Earl said:

Certainly is possible, but I highly doubt it.   The universe is not big to God, as he made it.   The Bible indicates that the whole creation groans under the weight of sin, and that eventually God is going to destroy it all and create a new heaven and earth.   Furthermore God created us with a very special purpose, so important that he lowered himself into a man and allowed himself to be tortured and killed as a sacrifice to atone for our sins.   Do think God is doing that in billions of other worlds?  

why not? wouldnt the sacrifice mean all that much more if he had to go through it a few billion times?

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T-RAC   
3 hours ago, titanruss said:

why not? wouldnt the sacrifice mean all that much more if he had to go through it a few billion times?

Yeah, honestly, if Santa Claus can visit every house in one night, I don't see why Jesus couldn't die on every Christian planet.

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Stan   

I believe they do. I’ve seen to many things looking at stars that can’t or never be dismissed as just planes, balloons.. etc. 

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On 2/25/2019 at 1:56 PM, Soxcat said:

The fact is that nobody knows so to assume anything is just ignorant.  God's ways are higher than our ways so I try not to think of a bunch of what ifs or what should be, could be. 

Aliens are no more of a what if than God.

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On 2/21/2019 at 8:37 PM, Starkiller said:

 

I really love this movie a lot, but the line that it "seems like an awful waste of space if it's just us" is Sagan's weak critique that if god created the universe with us being its only occupants then it points to god being a wasteful, inefficient designer. 

 

It states in the bible, the Christian one at least, that the heavens declare the glory of god, not the glory of man. Philosophically speaking it seems a bit presumptious for Sagan to think that god would have created the universe to appease man's sensibilities, especially when humanity's scientific knowledge base of the universe is so small as to render it nearly infinitesimal. How does Sagan know what is or isn't conditionally necessary across the universe for intelligent life to exist? In the movie you even have Arroway talking at the end about how rare and precious we are, although oddly in the same contradictory breath saying how tiny and insignificant we are, so maybe the conditions for life really are that frail as to make life elsewhere impossible, god or not.

 

But what's odd about Sagan's statement is that it assumes a purpose. If this universe exists totally independent of any driven design... if we really are just the byproduct of random, chaotic mutations... then the idea that a human-only universe is a "waste of space" is really just a waste of thought. What even gave us this seemingly pointless dichotomy between what is purposefully efficient and what is wasteful in the first place? Why should we care whether or not we're alone? What is that longing for communion, where did it come from, and why do we seek to quench that thirst through every device we can get our minds/hands on?

 

Of course, you can take the statement in the movie at face value and assume Sagan just meant it as a way of saying the universe is a pretty big assed place with no pretext intended, but if that was the case I don't think they'd have made such a strategic decision to place that quote at three distinct times in the movie: once with Arroway's father saying that to her as a child, Palmer Joss saying it to her on their date (in the quoted video), and then Arroway saying it again at the close of the movie to the kids on the field trip. Secular skepticism is the undercurrent for the entire movie and it's set up that way on purpose.
 

I also think it's funny how in the end Arroway has to withstand the same "incredulity and skepticism" that she blasts everyone else with for the entire movie when she takes this unimaginable, gotta-see-it-to-believe-it trip that she brings back no evidence of taking... only to be bailed out by the strawman gotcha at the end that reveals an apparent government coverup.

 

Seems like the movie has its own self-reinforcing paranoid delusion. Not that government isn't capable of covering shit up... it probably happens at least semi-frequently. The philosophical bent of the movie presumes that if there were a coverup it would probably only cover up secular truth, but if you think governments wouldn't feel motivated to cover up any quantifiable, scientific evidence of spiritual truth then I have some beach front property on Mars I'd like to talk with you about.

Edited by NashvilleNinja

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T-RAC   
On 3/3/2019 at 5:59 AM, NashvilleNinja said:

 

 

But what's odd about Sagan's statement is that it assumes a purpose.

I don't think Sagan assumed a purpose. But, by attaching that conditional, he's arguing a case. He's trying to bring religious believers, who already firmly believe in a purpose, to consider the possibility of ET life.

 

It's a tough sell. Much of the religious community thinks. 'If it doesn't line up with the assumptions of our dogma, it's blasphemous and therefore shouldn't be considered or investigated."

 

Example:

 

On 2/25/2019 at 12:56 PM, Soxcat said:

God's ways are higher than our ways so I try not to think of a bunch of what ifs or what should be, could be. 

 

Christians are generally encouraged to filter out questions if the answers might contradict their worldview.

 

 

On 3/3/2019 at 5:59 AM, NashvilleNinja said:

What is that longing for communion, where did it come from, and why do we seek to quench that thirst through every device we can get our minds/hands on?

Honestly? There's safety in numbers so it's reasonable to assume nature would select for it. Herd behavior is common in a lot of species.

 

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Soxcat   
1 hour ago, T-RAC said:

....

 

 

Christians are generally encouraged to filter out questions if the answers might contradict their worldview.

 

 

.....

 

So believing in aliens is now a "world view".  Boy that is a real smart statement.

Here is the logic.  Can't be a God ..... and aliens somehow prove there really is no God (not true at all really) ....... so we should take the view there are aliens.

Well dunces, little green men from Mars doesn't prove or disprove God at all. 

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T-RAC   
3 hours ago, Soxcat said:

little green men from Mars doesn't prove or disprove God at all. 

That's true.

 

On 2/25/2019 at 12:56 PM, Soxcat said:

God's ways are higher than our ways so I try not to think of a bunch of what ifs or what should be, could be. 

That's willful ignorance. 

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