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Legaltitan

Official Beto O'Rourke Thread: Discuss all things Beto

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28 minutes ago, Legaltitan said:

Star and progressive folks criticize Beto for being too moderate. Folks that are more centrist criticize him for being too progressive. That, to me, without knowing all the specifics, suggests he may be just right.

This is bullshit. I’m not criticizing him based on his political stances. I just have no evidence yet that he is anything but charismatic. I want someone with substance. 

 

I’m happy to give him a chance if he runs but for now I don’t see him as presidential. 

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Justafan   
26 minutes ago, Legaltitan said:

I appreciate your opinion, but also appreciate your making one of my points for me.

 

Star and progressive folks criticize Beto for being too moderate. Folks that are more centrist criticize him for being too progressive. That, to me, without knowing all the specifics, suggests he may be just right.

 

When you say he is for "open borders," what do you mean? Because in Trumpland, that means anyone that isn't in lock step with Stephen Miller's views on immigration.  Also, what kind of "gun control" is he for? I would be surprised if its anything other than background checks and mainstream stuff like that, that most Americans agree on. But honestly, I don't know.

He's been vague when pressed on a lot of this stuff.  If you look at his policies, such as on Gun Control or immigration, it doesn't sound radical to me.  I'm okay with background checks and research on gun violence.  No idea why anyone would oppose those things.  My impression from listening to him speak, however, leads me to believe that given the choice he would support stronger measures that go beyond that which I would oppose.

 

Same thing on border control.  He's intentionally vague (as most politicians are) and nothing screams at you at first glance but again I just get the impression that his priorities are with helping as many people as possible and not necessarily with a stronger border.  That to me is naive and dangerous.  I'm sure my mind will change 1000 times during the primaries so I guess we'll see.

 

Here's a video of him breaking it down.  Again, he says he's against open borders but he also talks about people across a border and it just screams globalism.  I'm not against globalism per se but it's poor border policy.  I'm all for allowing folks to come here but they need to come here the right way and they need to go through the proper steps if they plan to stay.  

 

It's one of the reasons I oppose a wall.  It does absolutely nothing to actually address the actual problem which is people who jump on a plane or bus and come on a tourist visa but then just never leave and the employers who exploit cheap labor (Trump himself).

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3 minutes ago, Justafan said:

He's been vague when pressed on a lot of this stuff.  If you look at his policies, such as on Gun Control or immigration, it doesn't sound radical to me.  I'm okay with background checks and research on gun violence.  No idea why anyone would oppose those things.  My impression from listening to him speak, however, leads me to believe that given the choice he would support stronger measures that go beyond that which I would oppose.

 

Same thing on border control.  He's intentionally vague (as most politicians are) and nothing screams at you at first glance but again I just get the impression that his priorities are with helping as many people as possible and not necessarily with a stronger border.  That to me is naive and dangerous.  I'm sure my mind will change 1000 times during the primaries so I guess we'll see.

 

Here's a video of him breaking it down.  Again, he says he's against open borders but he also talks about people across a border and it just screams globalism.  I'm not against globalism per se but it's poor border policy.  I'm all for allowing folks to come here but they need to come here the right way and they need to go through the proper steps if they plan to stay.  

 

It's one of the reasons I oppose a wall.  It does absolutely nothing to actually address the actual problem which is people who jump on a plane or bus and come on a tourist visa but then just never leave and the employers who exploit cheap labor (Trump himself).

For me it sounds like Obama who always talked the talk of a progressive and then governed as a centrist.     (And that's from someone who liked Obama a lot more as a President than I did as a candidate. 

Edited by Pragidealist

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58 minutes ago, Legaltitan said:

I was actually thinkjg the opposite. With hkm being sort of the mainstream "I like that guy" candidate rather than the Bernie-like religious fervor type, and with no clear establishment frontrunner, the elimination of the caucuses may benefit him. Certainly won't hurt him as much as it would have Obama v Hillary or Bernie v Hillary. 

Maybe. He’s mainstream, but he’s very young and does not, up until this point, have the establishment backing him. Maybe that changes if he runs. The establishment candidate does better in primaries because of centralized money.

 

The caucases would certainly have helped him was the underlying part of my point. With those gone it makes it easier for the establishment candidate to win, which doesn’t mean I’m saying I disagree with them being eliminated. 

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1 minute ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Maybe. He’s mainstream, but he’s very young and does not, up until this point, have the establishment backing him. Maybe that changes if he runs. The establishment candidate does better in primaries because of centralized money.

 

The caucases would certainly have helped him was the underlying part of my point. With those gone it makes it easier for the establishment candidate to win, which doesn’t mean I’m saying I disagree with them being eliminated. 

All of that could be said of Obama when he ran the first time (except the caucasus)

Edited by Pragidealist

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37 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Maybe. He’s mainstream, but he’s very young and does not, up until this point, have the establishment backing him. Maybe that changes if he runs. The establishment candidate does better in primaries because of centralized money.

 

The caucases would certainly have helped him was the underlying part of my point. With those gone it makes it easier for the establishment candidate to win, which doesn’t mean I’m saying I disagree with them being eliminated. 

I understood your point.

 

What I am saying is I am not so sure he would have been the one to benefit from the caucuses. Certainly not like a Bernie. Especially given there really is no establishment preferred choice. You would think Biden would be the closest to an establishment pick, but I don't get the sense the party is fully behind him as the preferred candidate. In a wide open primary, Beto could actually emerge as the establishment favorite. He is already getting some of the top campaign folks either saying they want to join his campaign, or staying out until he announces. So, that being the case, the elimination of the caucuses could actually benefit him if he gets a head of steam and kind of becomes, by default, the establishment guy.  That's all I'm saying.

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1 minute ago, Legaltitan said:

I understood your point.

 

What I am saying is I am not so sure he would have been the one to benefit from the caucuses. Certainly not like a Bernie. Especially given there really is no establishment preferred choice. You would think Biden would be the closest to an establishment pick, but I don't get the sense the party is fully behind him as the preferred candidate. In a wide open primary, Beto could actually emerge as the establishment favorite. He is already getting some of the top campaign folks either saying they want to join his campaign, or staying out until he announces. So, that being the case, the elimination of the caucuses could actually benefit him if he gets a head of steam and kind of becomes, by default, the establishment guy.  That's all I'm saying.

I understood your point as well. I agree with it. I was saying I don’t think the establishment wants someone that young and with his history. I think they would prefer someone with different credentials, at least the old heads who control the money. But you’re right; this thing is wide open. It’s going to be a very interesting two years for politics. 

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tgo   

I'm a Biden guy, always have been. 

 

But I think Beto probably ends up taking it in the end for all the reasons the OP mentioned. He has what it takes. 

 

I like that Beto is relatively moderate but also seems to have the support of progressives. 

 

What I don't like is that he has no gravitas and has done absolutely nothing in his entire political career insofar as I'm aware. 

 

I'm not sure he has the experience to be a super effective president in year 1. Would have a lot of learning on the job to do. But I'm sure he'd make some good speeches and unite people.

 

I prefer people with experience and that know how to wield power and move the levers of power in Washington to accomplish things and who can navigate international affairs with prowess. Someone like Joe Biden or John Kerry. 

 

But I know that's not what most people go for. 

Edited by tgo

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37 minutes ago, tgo said:

I'm a Biden guy, always have been. 

 

But I think Beto probably ends up taking it in the end for all the reasons the OP mentioned. He has what it takes. 

 

I like that Beto is relatively moderate but also seems to have the support of progressives. 

 

What I don't like is that he has no gravitas and has done absolutely nothing in his entire political career insofar as I'm aware. 

 

I'm not sure he has the experience to be a super effective president in year 1. Would have a lot of learning on the job to do. But I'm sure he'd make some good speeches and unite people.

 

I prefer people with experience and that know how to wield power and move the levers of power in Washington to accomplish things and who can navigate international affairs with prowess. Someone like Joe Biden or John Kerry. 

 

But I know that's not what most people go for. 

I like Biden a lot, especially against Trump but his age man.   That's a bit tough.  How old will he be, 78?

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45 minutes ago, tgo said:

I'm a Biden guy, always have been. 

 

But I think Beto probably ends up taking it in the end for all the reasons the OP mentioned. He has what it takes. 

 

I like that Beto is relatively moderate but also seems to have the support of progressives. 

 

What I don't like is that he has no gravitas and has done absolutely nothing in his entire political career insofar as I'm aware. 

 

I'm not sure he has the experience to be a super effective president in year 1. Would have a lot of learning on the job to do. But I'm sure he'd make some good speeches and unite people.

 

I prefer people with experience and that know how to wield power and move the levers of power in Washington to accomplish things and who can navigate international affairs with prowess. Someone like Joe Biden or John Kerry. 

 

But I know that's not what most people go for. 

I like Joe a lot. And I think he would have been the perfect candidate to defeat Trump. 

 

But Joe, through no fault of his own, missed his best and last change, IMO. Things have changed a lot, politically, even since 2016. Not to mention that he has tried numerous times and never even made it out of the primaries. One thing that works in his favor is I don't think anyone would care about him being a gaff machine anymore. Clearly in the age of Donald Trump, that stuff doesn't matter. What would hurt him is the handsiness.

 

I just think the rank and file of the Democratic party is looking for new blood right now. But at this point you gotta figure Biden has as good a shot as anyone, so who knows?

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7 hours ago, Legaltitan said:

This guy has the early buzz and the swagger, and (unfortunately) most importantly, the fundraising chops.

 

I admit I am very biased, because Beto is one of those candidates that has captivated me much like Obama did. I just like the guy, and I feel good about him. If that sounds squishy and emotion-based, ok so be it. But it's also based on my gut telling me this guy can unite the Democratic party like noone has been able to since Obama.

 

Another very overlooked factor is Beto's retail politics prowess. I won't say he has Bill Clinton's chops - no one will probably ever be as good at retail politics as dirty Bill. But Beto is very good at it, and more importantly he understands his importance. He went in to every community he could in Texas, talking to and listening to voters. 

 

Very telling to me that Beto was criticized heavily for running as a progressive against Cruz: "it was there for the taking, if he had just been more moderate!" And now, the Bernie bros and others are criticizing Beto for being too moderate. To me, nothing could better signify that he is right where he needs to be.

 

So despite losing to Cruz, the guy has alot going for him. Young, attractive, an "it" factor, smart, fairly courageous politically, and seems to concern both the centrists and the progressives in the Democratic Party. 

 

Thoughts?

 

His run reminds me a bunch of Obama from 2005-07, except he may have more charisma and wit than Obama did. He’s certainly a dynamite fundraiser. Will be an interesting 18 mos., for sure. 

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klaatu-   

I could see myself voting for Robert O'Rourke but I don't think I can pull the lever for Beto. You're running for President of the US, not high school student council. Drop the nickname like the rest of us did when we became adults.

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patsplat   
5 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

 Charisma, good looks and charm win the presidency over substance 

Looked at our current president and was going to call out good lucks, but then remembered his opponent.

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