Jump to content

Recommended Posts

OILERMAN   

Most of the time at a full table only 2 or 3 are involved in a hand. The strategy wasn't intended for just shoving all in pre flop with 6-8 players left to act and it's not meant to be used every hand.

Even if you have a top hand like AK or 99 or better a lot of times you're only a 60-75% favorite. A very good player is not going to risk his tournament life calling an all in against a worse player.

I don't play this way only pointing out why pot limit requires more skill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ctm   

Bottom line is that in no limit you can immediately price your opponent out of a hand by denying him the proper pot odds to call. You can't always do that in pot limit, thus more strategy involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

Most of the time at a full table only 2 or 3 are involved in a hand. The strategy wasn't intended for just shoving all in pre flop with 6-8 players left to act and it's not meant to be used every hand.

Even if you have a top hand like AK or 99 or better a lot of times you're only a 60-75% favorite. A very good player is not going to risk his tournament life calling an all in against a worse player.

I don't play this way only pointing out why pot limit requires more skill

Well if you aren't using the strategy every hand, then it's not taking any skill out of the no limit game when it's not being used.

Bottom line is that in no limit you can immediately price your opponent out of a hand by denying him the proper pot odds to call. You can't always do that in pot limit, thus more strategy involved.

Sure if everyone else at the table is strictly playing based on nothing but pot odds and has no balls. Sounds like a boring game to me.

A major part of the skill/strategy of no limit is knowing when to put all your chips on the table, either as your bet or calling someone else's.

Limit, pot limit, and no limit all require skill to consistently win. Some of those skills cross between the games seamlessly and some require variation depending on which game you are playing. The only major difference between the 3 games is the bet limit, which affects how you manage your chip stack.

I would agree limit games require the use of some skills more often than no limit games. But there isn't any additional skill involved, you are just using the same ones more often because you aren't having as many hands where you only make 1 or 2 decisions due to an all in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

Additionally, a lot depends on your opponents. If you are sitting at a 6 man table and all 6 of you are pros who play by the book, it's a lot different than sitting at a table with 2 great players, 2 decent ones, and 2 bad players with lots of bankroll like the guy who took Mercalius dough. At the latter table, you have 3 or 4 guys who aren't making bets based on pot/implied odds and their betting is far more unpredictable until you play enough hands to get a decent read.

The basic same "kill phil" can be used in pot limit games. You can't go all in but you can bet the pot every single time and wipe out the skill in the same way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OILERMAN   

Bottom line is that in no limit you can immediately price your opponent out of a hand by denying him the proper pot odds to call. You can't always do that in pot limit, thus more strategy involved.

Basically this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

Basically this

So there's no strategy or skill involved in deciding when to immediately price your opponent out of a hand and when to slow play a guy who only makes decisions based upon pot odds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OILERMAN   

So there's no strategy or skill involved in deciding when to immediately price your opponent out of a hand and when to slow play a guy who only makes decisions based upon pot odds?

... you're taking an extreme stance. I never said there was no skill involved in no limit hold em. I see people misplay short stacks and raise when they should go all in and make all kinds of late tournaments strategy mistakes constantly, there is def skill involved. Fold equity is the key to tournament survival.

And no one is saying pot limit takes ten times more skill, it's just a slightly more skilled game. I don't even like pot limit.

But if we were to sit down with Phil Ivey and play him heads up he would destroy you in pot limit, you'd have a chance in no limit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

... you're taking an extreme stance. I never said there was no skill involved in no limit hold em. I see people misplay short stacks and raise when they should go all in and make all kinds of late tournaments strategy mistakes constantly, there is def skill involved. Fold equity is the key to tournament survival.

And no one is saying pot limit takes ten times more skill, it's just a slightly more skilled game. I don't even like pot limit.

But if we were to sit down with Phil Ivey and play him heads up he would destroy you in pot limit, you'd have a chance in no limit

I guess I misinterpreted what you were saying then but I still don't agree pot limit is a slightly more skilled game all the time. It certainly can be if you are talking about a table or tournament filled with skilled players. But if you are talking about a good mix of skill level, I think no limit takes more skill because the skilled players will be playing more of a pot limit game against each other while at the same time playing a whole different type of game with some other players.

Look at it this way. No limit contains every skill of pot limit but there are times when it requires additional skills. On the flip side, there are no skills involved in a pot limit game that are not present in a no limit game, aside from minor ones that have to do with managing your stack differently to get everyone else's chips on the table. The difference is in how often the additional skills are required in a no limit game.

Phil Ivey would destroy us in either game a large majority of the time. Our best chance at beating a guy with such superior skills would be to get a great run of cards at the same time he got cards to that were good enough to play but simply losing hands in comparison to ours.

The reason we would have a better shot at beating Ivey in a no limit game has nothing to do with skill. It has to do with the fact the betting limit in a pot limit game would require more hands to take away all of his chips, which means we need a longer run of cards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

Are you trying to say pot limit does not necessarily require a higher quantity of skill, but it generally requires using skill more often because it takes more games to win.....compared to a no limit game that has the potential to end without a lot of skill being used since it can end any given hand?

If that is what you are saying, I agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ctm   

Are you trying to say pot limit does not necessarily require a higher quantity of skill, but it generally requires using skill more often because it takes more games to win.....compared to a no limit game that has the potential to end without a lot of skill being used since it can end any given hand?

If that is what you are saying, I agree.

There are situations where no limit can minimize post flop skills, which is where a pro like Ivy will excell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

There are situations where no limit can minimize post flop skills, which is where a pro like Ivy will excell.

I agree with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

Oman,

How many people were in that poker tournament you just played in? And how long were you at the table (in hours/minutes)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OILERMAN   

Oman,

How many people were in that poker tournament you just played in? And how long were you at the table (in hours/minutes)?

Roughly 40 people, there was a conflicting tournament at a near by casino that pulled away the normal crowd.

I played from 2:00 to about 5:00 going out in 11th.

You got 9k in chips and the blind levels were 20 mins. Antes kicked in on the 4th blind level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abenjami   

I'm getting fired up to play after this thread. I think I need to head out to an indian casino soon. I'm going to vegas in march and that could mean bad news for my wallet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OILERMAN   

I prefer this Saturday tourney that costs 175.00, you get a 15k starting stack with 30 min levels, it gets 150 people plus usually. First is usually 6-7k.

At another Casino they have a Fri tourney for 220.00 that has about 80 people in it.

Two really good ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×