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AussieTitanFan08

Iowa TE T.J. Hockenson

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Hockenson vs Fant as a red zone options. 

 

Percentage of catches that were TDS the last 2 seasons. Hockenson 14.3%, Fant 26%. 

 

Yeah sure would suck to have a 6'5 240 lb guy who can beat a CB on a fade route. For fuck's sake we can get anybody who can block they are a dime a dozen. A guy who can line up almost anywhere and be productive are rare. 

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These are the best combine-pro day numbers for David Njoku in 2017. Njoku was taken at the end of rd one and was 8th among all TEs in yards and catches in the NFL playing on a less than prolific passing team. 

 

6'3 1/2

246

 

40-4.63(Pro day)

Cone 6.97(Combine)

Vertical 40(Pro day)

Bench 21(Pro day)

 

Fant is supposed to be 6'5 240. If he comes in at that size with these types of numbers you grab him with both hands. Now I'm willing along with Soxcat to make some comparisons to the better and bigger WR prospects(Metcalf-Brown-Humphrey). 

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13 hours ago, Rolltide said:

I said that Stocker has no bearing on whether or not we draft a TE. Tuco said it does. Read his post. Reading disability?

 

Jared cook had almost 900 yards receiving this past season. Since his rookie year he has averaged 598 yards a season. There are a boatload of 1st rd picks and high 2nd rd picks that have done much less than that. Kenny Britt-Justin Hunter-Kendall Wright are examples. 

 

Players like Cook are much more valued today than when he was drafted. 

The general point is we obviously would prefer a TE who can do it all if we go that route in the 1st.  So if we can get a guy who can block like Stocker and catch like Cook/Fant we have a solid pick.  Cook was an obvious liability as a blocker and it is the reason he has bounced around the league some.  I always liked him as a weapon but still would not draft his clone in the 1st round. 

 

You mentioned Engram and he is a pretty good player.  But he certainly is not a top level TE.  Not in the Witten, Kelsey or Delanie Walker category.... not yet anyway.

You take these arguments to the point of ridiculous.   

 

Jrob is going to have a tough choice in the 1st round potentially having to choose between a real good interior DL, Edge player (both needs), possibly a WR who can balance the other side with Davis or a TE.  We also need to see the results of FA.  So sitting on one player as the ONLY guy we should take is ridiculous. 

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18 hours ago, Soxcat said:

The general point is we obviously would prefer a TE who can do it all if we go that route in the 1st.  So if we can get a guy who can block like Stocker and catch like Cook/Fant we have a solid pick.  Cook was an obvious liability as a blocker and it is the reason he has bounced around the league some.  I always liked him as a weapon but still would not draft his clone in the 1st round. 

 

You mentioned Engram and he is a pretty good player.  But he certainly is not a top level TE.  Not in the Witten, Kelsey or Delanie Walker category.... not yet anyway.

You take these arguments to the point of ridiculous.   

 

Jrob is going to have a tough choice in the 1st round potentially having to choose between a real good interior DL, Edge player (both needs), possibly a WR who can balance the other side with Davis or a TE.  We also need to see the results of FA.  So sitting on one player as the ONLY guy we should take is ridiculous. 

Eric Ebron was a 10th pick and he was not a good blocker. Fant might have a better overall workout. You are looking for a play maker who can line up in a variety of places and be a matchup problem. A guy who can catch 4+ passes a game with a solid WR like ypc.  

 

We are almost certain to not draft Fant because we think we have a similar type player in Jonnu but I'm pounding the table for this guy because I think he can be really exceptional. Even better than Ebron or Cook. Hockenson will not likely be there at 19. 

 

Let's see how these guys measure up tomorrow.  

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So you start your argument out with a total waste of a draft pick in Ebron?  A guy who until lately was about like tits on a boar. 

Here is the thing.  If Hokenson can catch 50 balls a year and be a real good blocker he isn't s super star but he isn't a wasted pick by a long shot.  That makes him as good as Ebron catching passes and also a functional blocker.  Again, guys who can only catch aren't worth an early pick IMO.  Better off getting a WR or another position. 

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2 hours ago, Soxcat said:

So you start your argument out with a total waste of a draft pick in Ebron?  A guy who until lately was about like tits on a boar. 

Here is the thing.  If Hokenson can catch 50 balls a year and be a real good blocker he isn't s super star but he isn't a wasted pick by a long shot.  That makes him as good as Ebron catching passes and also a functional blocker.  Again, guys who can only catch aren't worth an early pick IMO.  Better off getting a WR or another position. 

Hockenson will most likely not be on the board at 19. What about that do you not comprehend? 

 

The Ravens took the type of TE you prefer in Hayden Hurst. He managed 13 catches last year. 25th pick 13 catches, 1 TD wow. Their third rd pick Mark Andrews had 34 catches with a 16 yard average and 3 TDs. Who is the better player?

 

There are probably 15 guys you could pick off the waiver wire that can block.   

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Soxcat try reading my previous post since you have no idea what I was saying about Eric Ebron. I did not say he was the god of TEs. I said he was a pass catching prospect who was probably not as good an athlete overall as Fant and still was a 10th pick. Ebron had a 32 inch vertical and a shitty cone time. 

 

Good job being libtard like and not understanding a basic point. 

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Some mocks I read from NFL network. 

 

Casserly has Hockenson coming off at 8 and has us taking Lawrence the Clemson DT at 19. He has Fant coming off at 32 to the Pats. 😭

 

Bucky Brooks has Hockenson coming off at 11 and has us taking the other Clemson DT Wilkins lol. He has Fant going off at 23. 

 

Peter Schrager has Hockenson going at 16 to the Panthers. He has us taking Fant at 19! Fuck yeah!

 

FYI Fant weighed in at 249. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rolltide

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1 hour ago, Rolltide said:

Hockenson will most likely not be on the board at 19. What about that do you not comprehend? 

 

The Ravens took the type of TE you prefer in Hayden Hurst. He managed 13 catches last year. 25th pick 13 catches, 1 TD wow. Their third rd pick Mark Andrews had 34 catches with a 16 yard average and 3 TDs. Who is the better player?

 

There are probably 15 guys you could pick off the waiver wire that can block.   

Nit wit, the point is not if we can get a guy to block.  It is not easy to find TEs than can block and catch.  My whole point about Hokenson is simply this.  Even if he isn't Kelsey good catching the ball (not saying he isn't) he can catch about 50 balls and be a real good blocker and worth the pick as an all around TE.  The whole issue with a guy like Cook, who can't block, is it limits the play calls when he is in the game.  The defense knows this.  Visa versa when you have a guy like Stocker in the game.  So if Hokenson can block the defense doesn't know if they need to worry about Henry or about our TE going out for a pass.  There is the value.  That one player can be the key for the defense not only having uncertainty about what he is going to do but it potentially opens up the other players.  If they have to tighten up to stop the run all the pass catchers have more room to get open and potential miss matches. 

 

There is a chance Hokenson will be on the board.  Not a lock he will be gone.  Not sure at all what all these poor picks have to do with anything.  Does that not prove we should take any TE early?  Do you even know what you are arguing?  Are you arguing with yourself or your other personality?

 

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Soxcat has no perspective on such matters. This is a guy who once said that Javon Ringer was an Emmitt Smith type back. Well they are both black and sort of the same size. 😲

 

He called Eric Ebron a guy who has averaged 50 catches and 564 yards a season a total waste of a draft pick. In what league? Ebron had 13 Tds for the Colts last season. The Colts signed him to a 2 year $13M contract even though they already had a damn good TE in Jack Doyle.

 

 

Edited by Rolltide

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Suck my hairy bean bag! 40 times...

 

Fant 249 lbs 4.50

Hockenson 251 lbs 4.70

 

2nd best TE 40 was 4.56. 

 

Edited after official times were announced. 

 

Total workout comparison. 

 

40

Hockenson 4.70

Fant 4.50

 

Reps

Hockenson 17

Fant 20

 

Vertical

Hockenson 37.5

Fant 39.5

 

Cone

Hockenson 7.02

Fant 6.81

 

Comparisons? Jason Witten and Dallas Clark were timed at 4.65 in the 40 back in 2003. OJ Howard ran a 4.51 40 and had a 6.85 cone but his vertical was only 30. 

 

 

Edited by Rolltide

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On 1/7/2019 at 10:38 AM, tgo said:

Pruitt is an infinitely better blocker than Firkser and that's a really big "if" regarding whether he can improve his blocking.

 

The thing that makes me thing they could keep Stocker is his versatility. He's the H-back/fullback and really improved down the stretch. 

I could see them keeping Stocker as the FB/4th TE even.  

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The Titans are fine at TE but two elite athletes with big-time production are likely available in the first round.  TE is a position where you can upgrade the passing game, the blocking, and the run game all with one player.  It's tough to overlook guys like Hockenson and Fant especially if the top 5 edge guys are all gone by the time 19 rolls around. 

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On 3/8/2019 at 10:26 PM, Justafan said:

The Titans are fine at TE but two elite athletes with big-time production are likely available in the first round.  TE is a position where you can upgrade the passing game, the blocking, and the run game all with one player.  It's tough to overlook guys like Hockenson and Fant especially if the top 5 edge guys are all gone by the time 19 rolls around. 

Yeah I'm down for spending 1st rounders on talent you're unlikely to find in other rounds, even if it's not the primary need. These two TEs are rare specimens it seems.

 

And even if TE isn't a huge need right away, it will be soon enough. You may not get this class to choose from again any time soon.

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