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Democratic Nomination for 2020 - UPDATED to include those who have officially announced


Legaltitan

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3 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

If you tax 401k’s that is taxing the remnants of the middle class. Like I said, raise the income tax and as you noted take the cap off of FICA before you go after 401k. 

I think there's a misunderstanding. 

 

I was specifically saying NOT to target 401ks, unless we're discussing later comments from others that I've missed. 

 

You absolutely should NOT target 401ks in any way, I completely agree. 

 

I just mean investment income for people like Warren Buffett and Mitt Romney. When Buffett says his tax rate is lower than his secretary's, what he's saying is that the capital gains tax rate is 15%, lower than his secretary's tax rate in whatever their bracket is. That's what I'm referring to. 

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Amigo, there has to be a transition that isn’t strictly Medicare for All, regardless of how the bill is written. I’ve supported Medicare for All for a long time now. I still support it. When speaking

I know some people don't want to hear it, but it's going to be Bernie and if it is, he's gonna win. 

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2 minutes ago, tgo said:

I think there's a misunderstanding. 

 

I was specifically saying NOT to target 401ks, unless we're discussing later comments from others that I've missed. 

 

You absolutely should NOT target 401ks in any way, I completely agree. 

 

I just mean investment income for people like Warren Buffett and Mitt Romney. When Buffett says his tax rate is lower than his secretary's, what he's saying is that the capital gains tax rate is 15%, lower than his secretary's tax rate in whatever their bracket is. That's what I'm referring to. 

I quoted the post where you said ‘even 30% isn’t too much for the ordinary guy’. I thought you meant we should raise capital gains which would include 401ks. I think that’s a bad idea and curbs investment and sends money overseas or into speculative things like gold for the average person. Just flat out cut deductions for rich people and raise their rates. Make the major companies pay their share. Make it a tiered system with deductions. My friend runs a small business with about 20 employees doing apoxy floors. He’s had to pay 35% every year for the past 6 years. Amazon got a return. 

 

I guess my my point is people like to get into the minutiae instead of just thinking logically. Rich people are paying less than the middle class. Conglomerate international businesses are paying less than the mom and pops shops. Fix that and start from there. 

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9 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I quoted the post where you said ‘even 30% isn’t too much for the ordinary guy’. I thought you meant we should raise capital gains which would include 401ks. I think that’s a bad idea and curbs investment and sends money overseas or into speculative things like gold for the average person. Just flat out cut deductions for rich people and raise their rates. Make the major companies pay their share. Make it a tiered system with deductions. My friend runs a small business with about 20 employees doing apoxy floors. He’s had to pay 35% every year for the past 6 years. Amazon got a return. 

 

I guess my my point is people like to get into the minutiae instead of just thinking logically. Rich people are paying less than the middle class. Conglomerate international businesses are paying less than the mom and pops shops. Fix that and start from there. 

Oh I meant investments outside of retirement funds when I said that - not 401ks or IRAs. Capital gains taxes don't apply to retirement funds as far as I'm aware, only other investment funds. 

 

But maybe you're right, maybe it is a bad idea - perhaps a better idea would be to apply it only to investment earnings above a certain threshold or to apply a tiered structure like the income tax. 

 

But capital gains taxes absolutely have to be raised on the rich, that's where the real revenue is, and that's also the most equitable way to do it imo

 

Agreed on companies paying their fair share btw. And the scenario you mentioned with small business owners paying out the ass while the fat cats get paid by the government happens left and right and is a total disgrace. 

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2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I quoted the post where you said ‘even 30% isn’t too much for the ordinary guy’. I thought you meant we should raise capital gains which would include 401ks. I think that’s a bad idea and curbs investment and sends money overseas or into speculative things like gold for the average person. Just flat out cut deductions for rich people and raise their rates. Make the major companies pay their share. Make it a tiered system with deductions. My friend runs a small business with about 20 employees doing apoxy floors. He’s had to pay 35% every year for the past 6 years. Amazon got a return. 

 

I guess my my point is people like to get into the minutiae instead of just thinking logically. Rich people are paying less than the middle class. Conglomerate international businesses are paying less than the mom and pops shops. Fix that and start from there. 

There are a ton of subsidies and loop holes for corporations plus the corporate tax rate got lowered way too much.  That should be addressed first and foremost.

 

Income taxes on the very wealthy probably need to go up a little but not anything crazy.  They do need to employ more people at the IRS to go after people who hide all their money offshore or do other shady shit to evade taxes.

 

Lastly, I have no problem raising capital gains if they do a tiered system like they do with income.  You're right though, have to be careful here because we don't want to discourage capital investment.

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2 minutes ago, tgo said:

Oh I meant investments outside of retirement funds when I said that - not 401ks or IRAs. Capital gains taxes don't apply to retirement funds as far as I'm aware, only other investment funds. 

 

But maybe you're right, maybe it is a bad idea - perhaps a better idea would be to apply it only to investment earnings above a certain thresh-hold or to apply a tiered structure like the income tax. 

 

But capital gains taxes absolutely have to be raised on the rich, that's where the real revenue is, and that's also the most equitable way to do it imo

 

Agreed on companies paying their fair share btw. And the scenario you mentioned with small business owners paying out the ass while the fat cats get paid by the government happens left and right and is a total disgrace. 

Yeah the 401ks only get hit if you take them out before retirement, which in my mind is bullshit the way they do it. See, I’m stuck in minutiae! 

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I just want to point out that, when read in the appropriate context in which they said it, there is nothing extreme or socialist about breaking up some of the biggest tech companies. We have grown very lax in enforcing anti trust laws. Those laws are in place for a reason. Reasonable minds can disagree about whether Amazon and Google should be broken up, but it is not extreme leftist or socialist to talk about it. 

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22 minutes ago, tgo said:

Yes, I do realize that and I for reasons I stated, I think it's tyrannical. 

 

There are better ways to tax the wealthy, and certainly better ways to message it that don't scare people - just from a political strategy perspective. 

The right will make sure that any message about economic justice scares the shit out of people no matter how fair the proposal actually is. At this point all we can do is develop policies that are fair and effective and sell them to the American people as best we can. If the Republicans were able to successfully frame ACA as a death panel for grandma, they'll label any and every attempt to address income inequality as a socialist , communist cash grab. 

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The idea is all about the law being applied ubiquitously in an equitable fashion. That obviously isn’t happening. Walmart went 4 straight years having a negative corporate tax while they’re purposely placing their workers on Medicaid. That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. 

 

Billionaires are are paying next to nothing while I’m getting hit for every dollar I earn except the money I defer into a 401k. 

 

Simple steps that are easy to discuss with the masses. That’s the way forward for Dems. 

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4 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

The idea is all about the law being applied ubiquitously in an equitable fashion. That obviously isn’t happening. Walmart went 4 straight years having a negative corporate tax while they’re purposely placing their workers on Medicaid. That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. 

 

Billionaires are are paying next to nothing while I’m getting hit for every dollar I earn except the money I defer into a 401k. 

 

Simple steps that are easy to discuss with the masses. That’s the way forward for Dems. 

Oh, you mean socialism!!!! Go ask Venezuela how that's working out!!!!

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Bernie’s polling give him the same 2 point lead Clinton lost with. His electability argument will be lacking this time when he’s not compared to an historically unpopular possible candidate like Clinton.

 

 

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