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9 Nines

President Trump is threatening government shut-down

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5 hours ago, ctm said:

He wants the fight.  

 

You can measure how bad someone wants something in a negotiation by what they are willing to give up.  The more they are willing to offer, then the more you can assume they want their objective.  And the converse is true. If they aren't offering anything, then they really don't want what they claim they do.

 

Trump is offering up nothing to get the wall.  Lindsay Graham tried to broker a comprehensive immigration deal yesterday.  Trump shot it down.  He's offering nothing.  He wants the fight.

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/10/republican-senators-government-shutdown-1096118

 

What Trump apparently doesn't realize is that he is painting republican senators into the same corner he's in.  What is their way out other than breaking with him and voting to fund the government? Even if he declares a national emergency, that doesn't open up the government.  There still has to be a vote of a bill.   The political pressure by citizens to open the government is just starting.  It's going to get worse on the senators to vote.  It's just a matter of how much time and how much pain.  The government can't stay closed forever.

 

So if Trump is forcing republican senators to break with him on this high profile issue, doesn't it get a little easier for them to break with him on the next high profile issue.....like impeachment?  He's driving a wedge between himself and the senators he desperately needs.

He wants the wall. He wants a personal monument to himself. He sees it as an American Great Wall with his initials signed on it in big Gold letters. 

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So what is going to happen is Trump will get the funding for the wall by declaring a federal emergency, and the Democrats will get nothing since they refuse to negotiate.   Hoping the courts will block this is not very good.  Trump has plenty of grounds to declare an emergency, as can be seen if you read the entire act that grants the President the powers.  And I laugh at you libs that don't like Trump circumventing Congress.  You had zero problems when Obama circumvented Congress, like funding the failed Lybia war, and DACA.  

 It would also be almost impossible to find someone in standing that can take it to court.  There is no one who will be hurt by the wall, except illegals wanting to get in, who have no standing to sue.    Eminent domain laws prevent land owners on the border from suing.   

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Btowner   
3 minutes ago, Little Earl said:

So what is going to happen is Trump will get the funding for the wall by declaring a federal emergency, and the Democrats will get nothing since they refuse to negotiate.   Hoping the courts will block this is not very good.  Trump has plenty of grounds to declare an emergency, as can be seen if you read the entire act that grants the President the powers.  And I laugh at you libs that don't like Trump circumventing Congress.  You had zero problems when Obama circumvented Congress, like funding the failed Lybia war, and DACA.  

 It would also be almost impossible to find someone in standing that can take it to court.  There is no one who will be hurt by the wall, except illegals wanting to get in, who have no standing to sue.    Eminent domain laws prevent land owners on the border from suing.   

You should laugh at yourself too. You had problems with Obama circumventing Congress.

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33 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

He wants the wall. He wants a personal monument to himself. He sees it as an American Great Wall with his initials signed on it in big Gold letters. 

I agree with ctm. He couldn't give two shits less about the wall.

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9 Nines   

President's advisor, Hassett, argued that the furloughed government workers are enjoying a long vacation instead of hardship:

 

In interview, Kevin Hassett, chairman of President Trump's Council of Economic Advisers:

 

Workers are furloughed, and right now, it's about 25 percent of government workers are furloughed, which means that they are not allowed to go to work.

But then, when the shutdown ends, they go back to work and they get their back pay. A huge share of government workers were going to take vacation days, say, between Christmas and New Year's. And then we have a shutdown, and so they can't go to work, and so then they have the vacation, but they don't have to use their vacation days.

 

And then they come back, and then they get their back pay. Then they're — in some sense, they're better off.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/evaluating-trumps-economic-policies-2-years-in

 

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2 hours ago, Little Earl said:

After further research I learned that all bills sent to the senate are no longer valid with a new Congress (every two years).  So the bill the Democrats filibustered is no longer there.

There we go. First true statement I’ve heard from one of you guys in a while. 

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2 hours ago, Little Earl said:

So what is going to happen is Trump will get the funding for the wall by declaring a federal emergency, and the Democrats will get nothing since they refuse to negotiate.   Hoping the courts will block this is not very good.  Trump has plenty of grounds to declare an emergency, as can be seen if you read the entire act that grants the President the powers.  And I laugh at you libs that don't like Trump circumventing Congress.  You had zero problems when Obama circumvented Congress, like funding the failed Lybia war, and DACA.  

 It would also be almost impossible to find someone in standing that can take it to court.  There is no one who will be hurt by the wall, except illegals wanting to get in, who have no standing to sue.    Eminent domain laws prevent land owners on the border from suing.   

Welp...back to nonsense. 

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ctm   

Declaring a national emergency, doesn't give the president to start transferring funds.    If he tries that, it will immediately go to court and he will lose.

 

If that were possible, we would have already seen examples of it.

 

And if you think no one is harmed if Trump tries to transfer funds out of money legally appropriated for disaster relief to build a wall, then I really don't know what to say.

Edited by ctm

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12 minutes ago, ctm said:

Declaring a national emergency, doesn't give the president to start transferring funds.    If he tries that, it will immediately go to court and he will lose.

 

If that were possible, we would have already seen examples of it.

This isn’t exactly true. The National Emergency Act after it was changed in the court became very expansive. It’s a law that needs to be repealed and replaced. 

Edited by IsntLifeFunny

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ctm   
2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

This isn’t exactly true. The National Emergency Act after it was changed in the court became very expansive. It’s a law that needs to be repealed and replaced. 

There is a separation of powers constitutional issue involved if money is transferred.  Congress has the power of the purse.

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29 minutes ago, ctm said:

There is a separation of powers constitutional issue involved if money is transferred.  Congress has the power of the purse.

They do. As I said the National Security Act has become very expansive. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see it pass the Supreme Court. Either way they need to get rid of that law. 

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53 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

This isn’t exactly true. The National Emergency Act after it was changed in the court became very expansive. It’s a law that needs to be repealed and replaced. 

If he could do it - he’d have done it.  The only reason he doesn’t is because he knows it won’t work 

Edited by Pragidealist

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