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Pragidealist

So we’re cutting revenue while raising expenses- GOP must be in control

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39 minutes ago, Cyrus said:

What's the biggest gripe from conservatives about the budget...? Mandatory spending - specifically Social Security and Medicare. Combined, they make for 50% of the federal budget (give or take). 

 

Now consider that two items on your paystub are not refundable. Social Security Tax and Medicare Tax. You cannot reduce your tax liability for these through any deductions like you can with our federal income tax withholding. 

 

So to say that a married couple with two children making a combined $75K pay virtually nothing in taxes is patently wrong. They may be a limited amount in federal income tax (probably 5-10%~), but they will always pay for Social Security and Medicare - the two biggest items in the federal budget (more than defense spending).

 

Even more - we need to consider that Social Security tax is capped, meaning that after <$120K the tax goes away. The more you make above this amount, the less the tax ratio is out of your earnings (obviously). So the middle class is disproportionately paying for social security on this basis. (although not Medicare since it has no cap). When considering these combined, the more you make, the less you pay as a ratio of your income. (regressive)

 

Now our federal income tax is progressive and it is true that the rich, pay more (generally speaking) in that class of taxes. Also, I think it's fair to say that if you're very wealthy in this country, you're really not "burdened" at all when it comes to real life costs. (Security in housing, food, healthcare etc). Trust me, they're OK. It's fair to say that rates in the 80%-90% are unfair (which did exist at one time), but we're in the 30%ish~ range with billionaires who probably have an effective tax rate under 20% (if not less than 10%). 

 

I genuinely believe in many capitalist tenets. Positive incentives are good. But we need to get away from this glamorization of the rich as wealth creators. We can't flatten out the middle class. (the accumulation of wealth among a very small % is highly concerning). If we do, we'll very likely destroy the economy - especially in a consumer economy. We want a broad distribution of wealth (and mind you I'm not saying "re-destribution"). 

 

We have seen wage growth, which is good. I wouldn't attribute that to the tax bill (at least the current numbers as they're lagging indicators), but more likely just a recovering economy. The tax bill as a middle class tax cut is nonsense and always has been nonsense when evaluation what's actually in the bill. It's a corporate tax cut, primarily which may have a positive effect on job stability and hopefully wage growth long-term due higher levels of employment. (we'll see). 

 

Wage growth can be largely accredited to the tax cuts, low unemployment and deregulation. Trump is creating a great atmosphere for business growth into the future. Combine that with renegotiated trade deals/fair trade and you have a recipe for success. 

 

Again, there are potential landmines that must he dealt with as well...that if they aren't could derail the positive outlook. 

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BigTT   
6 hours ago, ben4titans said:

 

Yep, they need to rise and it will be painful. Thankfully Trump is providing an environment and economy that will be able to handle this in a less painful way than previous administrations. 

 

His military spending is brutal though and quite honestly ridiculous. I know some of that spending goes to a lot of American manufacturers and employs a lot of workers, but as the economy grows we need to dial back the military spending. It is embarrassing how much we spend. 

Whether we like it of not we are the world police.  Don't like it but it is a fact.  If the UN was worth a shit perhaps we wouldn't have to be.

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Cyrus   
1 hour ago, ben4titans said:

Wage growth can be largely accredited to the tax cuts, low unemployment and deregulation. Trump is creating a great atmosphere for business growth into the future. Combine that with renegotiated trade deals/fair trade and you have a recipe for success. 

 

Again, there are potential landmines that must he dealt with as well...that if they aren't could derail the positive outlook. 

You can't claim that a tax cut passed on a Friday, resulted in wage growth and job growth the following Monday. The recovery has been a long one, and even if you want to make the argument that it did so with headwinds of Obama's policies, you have to rationally admit that it happened during that time period regardless. That's just functionally what the data says and what any reasonable economist would tell you.

 

I was actually for some type of modest corporate tax cut. (Maybe to 25%, not necessarily 21%, but I won't quibble over 4%). I'm hopeful that we'll see some repatriation of capital from overseas too, but we'll see if corporations follow through on their promises to do so. Whether these amount to some type of tailwind for the economy I don't know. Personally I'm for a reasonable, progressive income tax (say, 35% on the higher end with capped deductions for individuals on the very high end) with low corporate tax rates. 

 

As for Trump, there's no coherency to his administration's policies - they're just the result of individual ideologies within the White House or Congress. Often times any potential positive is often off-set by some individual's desire for strict protectionism. If I'm being incredibly fair - I don't think we've seen enough actual policy yet to determine what the net-net is of Trump's administration. The economic growth is part of a larger trend over the last few years, and it's too soon to say what the corporate tax cut will yield over time. (the "tax cut" to the middle class is likely mild to insignificant). 

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ctm   
3 minutes ago, Cyrus said:

You can't claim that a tax cut passed on a Friday, resulted in wage growth and job growth the following Monday. The recovery has been a long one, and even if you want to make the argument that it did so with headwinds of Obama's policies, you have to rationally admit that it happened during that time period regardless. That's just functionally what the data says and what any reasonable economist would tell you.

 

I was actually for some type of modest corporate tax cut. (Maybe to 25%, not necessarily 21%, but I won't quibble over 4%). I'm hopeful that we'll see some repatriation of capital from overseas too, but we'll see if corporations follow through on their promises to do so. Whether these amount to some type of tailwind for the economy I don't know. Personally I'm for a reasonable, progressive income tax (say, 35% on the higher end with capped deductions for individuals on the very high end) with low corporate tax rates. 

 

As for Trump, there's no coherency to his administration's policies - they're just the result of individual ideologies within the White House or Congress. Often times any potential positive is often off-set by some individual's desire for strict protectionism. If I'm being incredibly fair - I don't think we've seen enough actual policy yet to determine what the net-net is of Trump's administration. The economic growth is part of a larger trend over the last few years, and it's too soon to say what the corporate tax cut will yield over time. (the "tax cut" to the middle class is likely mild to insignificant). 

If you live in an alternative reality, you can claim anything.  Wait till its obvious that the tax cut will explode the deficit.  It will be Obama's fault.

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http://thehill.com/policy/finance/382309-budget-deficit-to-hit-804b-after-tax-cuts-spending-hikes

 

This year's federal budget deficit will rise to $804 billion and is projected to nearly hit $1 trillion in 2019, largely because of the GOP tax cuts and the bipartisan $1.3 trillion spending package approved last month, according to updated projections released Monday by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

 

The $804 billion deficit this year would be a $139 billion increase over 2017, with the total representing 4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP).

 

In 2019, deficits would rise to $981 billion before peaking at 5.4 percent of GDP in 2022, according to the CBO's "Budget and Economic Outlook" report.

 

Deficits would hover around 5 percent through the end of the decade.

The debt burden, the total amount the government owes relative to the size of the economy, is projected to reach 96 percent of GDP by the end of the decade, its highest level since the end of World War II, the report said.

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begooode   

On Twitter on Monday, Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) delivered an unsubtle message to Republican leaders by defining “audacity” as “voting on a Constitutional balanced budget amendment only 4 legislative days after ramming through massive deficit spending, because you believe this stunt will convince constituents that you care about balancing the budget.”

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/382507-hoyer-whacks-gop-for-sudden-interest-in-deficit-spending

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3 hours ago, begooode said:

On Twitter on Monday, Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) delivered an unsubtle message to Republican leaders by defining “audacity” as “voting on a Constitutional balanced budget amendment only 4 legislative days after ramming through massive deficit spending, because you believe this stunt will convince constituents that you care about balancing the budget.”

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/382507-hoyer-whacks-gop-for-sudden-interest-in-deficit-spending

I absolutely hate the Democrat platform. It takes all of the worst things people deal with and puts them in the air for everyone to see to show how we are all victims. It needs to be entirely reformed to inculcate the mindset of the blue collar worker in a manner that supports and applauds the fact he works his ass of everyday. 

 

On the other side we have the most hypocritical motherfuckers I’ve ever come across. What a shitshow. I was just talking to my girlfriend about how the Republicans railed against Obama when he cut the deficit by 60% only to elect and support a guy who just ballooned it to over a trillion dollars without cause or need. I honestly have come to a point I’m starting to hate these people because they’re soundbite retards who are total and absolute hypocrites. 

Edited by IsntLifeFunny

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