What we witnessed tonight is a HUGE chip for the "offensive system is very important" crowd

[Face]

4 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Right now Marcus isn't as good in the pocket as Nick Foles, let alone Brady. Some of you are nuts. 

This was never about Brady. Charley started talking about him, that's absolutely nuts.

 

This is about Foles, who was thinking of retiring he was so bad. Instead he winds up on an Eagles team who was working magic with an inaccurate thrower in Carson Wentz. Suddenly Foles is playing incredibly well & all of a sudden he's a masterful pocket player who can manipulate the pass rush?

 

But meanwhile Marcus, who was very advanced going thru progressions as a rookie, suddenly locks onto his first target & stinks in the pocket?

[charleytolar]

4 minutes ago, Face said:

The thread was about Foles, not Brady.

Actually, according to the title, it's about the "offensive system" which is where I took off putting MM in Brady's job and asking what of it could he have not done in that game. I find none, really... plus he probably would have caught that pass!

[TerryBoats]

5 minutes ago, Face said:

5 minutes ago, charleytolar said:

Actually, according to the title, it's about the "offensive system" which is where I took off putting MM in Brady's job and asking what of it could he have not done in that game. I find none, really... plus he probably would have caught that pass!

 

This is why I've never been as high on Brady as everyone else or thought he "made scrubs into stars".  He looks like an accurate pocket passer in an excellent system.  Guys were getting wide open, and rushers weren't even close to him.  I rarely see him do anything exceptional , unless you count the team achievements.  If someone didn't know players, and they were told one of those guys was the GOAT and the other a backup, they couldn't have told you which is which.

[OILERMAN]

36 minutes ago, Face said:

 

But meanwhile Marcus, who was very advanced going thru progressions as a rookie, suddenly locks onto his first target & stinks in the pocket?

He had the same problems the first two seasons, it was just worse this year. 

[oldschool]

46 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

This is why I've never been as high on Brady as everyone else or thought he "made scrubs into stars".  He looks like an accurate pocket passer in an excellent system.  Guys were getting wide open, and rushers weren't even close to him.  I rarely see him do anything exceptional , unless you count the team achievements.  If someone didn't know players, and they were told one of those guys was the GOAT and the other a backup, they couldn't have told you which is which.

Brady is a machine. He makes great throws and throws guys open all the time.

[Jonboy]

3 minutes ago, oldschool said:

Brady is a machine. He makes great throws and throws guys open all the time.

Dude just threw for 500 yards in a Super Bowl with 3 TDs and 0 picks...and people are trying downplay that? It's ridiculous. Brady was masterful last night and manipulated the pocket beautifully, especially early in that game when the Eagles were actually getting pressure. His pocket awareness and timing is second to no one.

 

That being said, I think there were enough signs toward the end of the year that show he may very well be starting to decline.

[oldschool]

Just now, Jonboy said:

Dude just threw for 500 yards in a Super Bowl with 3 TDs and 0 picks...and people are trying downplay that? It's ridiculous. Brady was masterful last night and manipulated the pocket beautifully, especially early in that game when the Eagles were actually getting pressure. His pocket awareness and timing is second to no one.

 

That being said, I think there were enough signs toward the end of the year that show he may very well be starting to decline.

He had to be perfect last night with the way the Eagles O played. I have no doubt he drives them down the field to score the winning TD if Graham doesnt cause the fumble.

[TerryBoats]

7 minutes ago, oldschool said:

Brady is a machine. He makes great throws and throws guys open all the time.

But we see when other guys are put in good offensive systems, they do the same thing.  Foles looked like prime Brady over the last two weeks, after having a negative TD to INT differential in a poor offensive system on a team which couldn't scheme guys open or protect the QB.  

[oldschool]

2 minutes ago, abc2330 said:

But we see when other guys are put in good offensive systems, they do the same thing.  Foles looked like prime Brady over the last two weeks, after having a negative TD to INT differential in a poor offensive system on a team which couldn't scheme guys open or protect the QB.  

You are conflating two points. Brady being awesome and Foles playing in a great system doesnt minimize Brady. It simply means Foles was put into a great situation and played lights out.

[TerryBoats]

Just now, oldschool said:

You are conflating two points. Brady being awesome and Foles playing in a great system doesnt minimize Brady. It simply means Foles was put into a great situation and played lights out.

I guess my point was that what Foles did the last two games, what Wentz has done, what Goff did this year, was the same thing Brady has done over his entire career.  Played great in an excellent system. 

 

There's clearly a difference of night and day between their play designs and our own.  I believe the league should do more to create parity in the coaching department, in addition to salary cap.  It's really crappy that a guy can go from taking a beating and struggling to the point that he wants to move on from the sport to being a SB MVP , simply from the difference in coaching.  Maybe we wouldn't have an organization with 8 championship appearances of the majority of the other 31 teams had any clue as to what the hell they were doing.

[Tex in a Can]

NE's offense was very good last night, Philly's D-line is amazing yet there was only one sack of Brady and they marched down he field continuously.

 

I bet NE concentrates on defense this off season and back filling FA holes.

[TitanDuckFan]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

Dude just threw for 500 yards in a Super Bowl with 3 TDs and 0 picks...and people are trying downplay that? It's ridiculous. Brady was masterful last night and manipulated the pocket beautifully, especially early in that game when the Eagles were actually getting pressure. His pocket awareness and timing is second to no one.

 

That being said, I think there were enough signs toward the end of the year that show he may very well be starting to decline.

Well except for the fact that he didn't throw those TDs until the 2nd half.

Early, when PHI was getting pressure in the 1st half, NE's only TD came on a 26yd run play.  Brady may have looked good technically, but wasn't near as effective as his rep.

1st half NE drives resulted in:

FG

Missed FG

Over on downs

FG

RunTD

End of half.

12 points.

 

I can think of a number of Titans' 1st halves last season that had similar, or nearly identical results.

 

But, BB being BB, the 2nd half adjustments were spot-on and Brady's play came to life, throwing those 3 TDs.

Something Mularkey and Robiskie were rarely able to do.  Not with any consistency anyway.

 

[EagleEye]

Was ridiculous how much time Foles had in the pocket.  Almost no pressure.

[oldschool]

There is article on 538 today which goes into detail why the Eagles had to be perfect to win. Good read.

[Face]

15 hours ago, charleytolar said:

On Hogan's (?) touchdown, Collinsworth was babbling about him running a "patient route." Is that code for "slow"!? All he did was run up the seam in a plodding fashion and get 3 yards of separation which is like throwing through wide-open double-doors.

 

Of the Pats' receivers, only Cooks and maybe Dorsett have "speed", but they are not the guys doing the damage. It's Gronk and Amendola and Hogan and when he's healthy Edelman. Those guys are said to be "shifty" because they seem to get open so easily. I suspect it is in larger part due to a scheme that tears holes in any defense so that relatively easy plays can be executed.

Your 2nd paragraph is the key to the Pats system here. They're basically running the modern day version of the old Oilers run n shoot, i.e. a lot of option routes, which is exactly what they sound like, the receivers each have multiple options on particular plays based on the defensive look. Option routes were the cause of much debate when Chris Palmer was here, as there very complicated & require very good rapport between QB & WR. This is part of the reason you don't see Belichick running out to sign every WR that hits the market. Guys like Edelman & Amendola know the offense inside & out.

 

So yes, the system benefits Brady in that there is basically an option for every defense. That said, Brady is probably one of the only QB's that can handle this system. It's so difficult to process, you need to be on the same page as multiple receivers, and have the confidence that they're seeing the same things as you are. And these decisions need to be made in a flash. It was clearly too much for Locker & our receivers to handle. This is why it seems so easy for Brady at times, when done right, there's an open option on basically every play. But it would be a disaster for many other teams to run.