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Jonboy

Episode 136 - NFL Draft Round 1 Titans Recap

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3 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

No, you said Sharpe "just didn't impress last year" and "he might never be 'that' guy". Well, relative to what? I'd put forward the argument, as I have, that he performed well for where the Titans drafted him. I never questioned the need to upgrade WR, indeed I've mocked two to the Titans for this year. So our lack of quality at the position was never in question, the crux of mine and I think Soxcat's arguments are that Sharpe was solid as a 5th round choice. So your criticism of him is unfair in the sense that you clearly are measuring him against a level that is likely impossible for him to achieve. He has upside limitation, but let's not be down on his rookie season. I think he exceeded most of the expectations that people had of him when we took him in the draft.

Again, in a discussion of quality, where he was drafted means nothing. What he can do means everything.

If he simply can't achieve a standard of being good relative to... wait for it... other players in the NFL ... and being able to contribute at a level consistent with how much they'll need to rely on him given the state of the position group - guess what? They need to upgrade the position.

You. Are. Confused.

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I'm going to compete in NASCAR.

Really? With what car?

My car. You know, the Elantra.

That car is not fast enough.

Yeah, but it was way cheaper than those expensive cars they drive.

Good luck, mate.

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1 minute ago, Jamalisms said:

Again, in a discussion of quality, where he was drafted means nothing. What he can do means everything.

If he simply can't achieve a standard of being good relative to... wait for it... other players in the NFL ... and being able to contribute at a level consistent with how much they'll need to rely on him given the state of the position group - guess what? They need to upgrade the position.

You. Are. Confused.

I think you're confused. He is good relative to #3 and #4 wide receivers in the NFL, you're measuring him against #1s and #2s, clearly. Or maybe you just don't watch the games. He can run every route, got a nice body of experience and work last season, had steady play. He showed me that he can be useful depth. His draft position is TOTALLY relevant. When you're drafted in the 5th round what is expected of you? Sharpe exceeded traditional expectations and showed me that he's worth a spot as our #3 or #4 WR for the foreseeable future. Critique him in the context of where he was drafted and what he will be for us in the future.

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5 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

I'm going to compete in NASCAR.

Really? With what car?

My car. You know, the Elantra.

That car is not fast enough.

Yeah, but it was way cheaper than those expensive cars they drive.

Good luck, mate.

Except the NFL is not a NASCAR race, it's a team sport. Depth is so important to maintaining a level of consistency when the inevitable injuries occur. Sharpe is solid depth for us. No one expects, or should expect, Sharpe to be on the same level as those top guys but if he can keep the Titans machine chugging along when an injury forces him in then I'm just fine with that.

If we worked by your reasoning we might as well cut all depth players cause they are never gonna be one of those fast NASCAR cars.

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3 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

... you're measuring him against #1s and #2s, clearly. 

Yeah, because that's exactly what he was and would be if we didn't upgrade the position. If you think he should be a 3 or 4, thanks for supporting my position that an upgrade was clearly needed.

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2 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

If we worked by your reasoning we might as well cut upgrade all depth players that are being relied on as starters cause they are never gonna be one of those fast NASCAR cars.

This is not complicated. You are arguing with a made up story because... wait for it... you are confused.

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3 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

Yeah, because that's exactly what he was and would be if we didn't upgrade the position. If you think he should be a 3 or 4, thanks for supporting my position that an upgrade was clearly needed.

Do you even read? I never questioned needing an upgrade but I thought your critique of Sharpe was harsh. Particularly in the context of where he was drafted and, hence, what should be expected of him. He may "just not have impressed" you last season, but he impressed me for where he was taken. That's the whole point, you have to look at these things in perspective. Sharpe never chose to be in situation where he would have to start, but he showed me that we can be functional at the position with him in. You need to lengthen your measuring stick.

Edited by THE_TITAN

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16 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

This is not complicated. You are arguing with a made up story because... wait for it... you are confused.

I think you're confused and I have consistently argued against a straw man. 

Edited by THE_TITAN

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Just now, THE_TITAN said:

I thought your critique of Sharpe was harsh. Particularly in the context of where he was drafted and, hence, what should be expected of him. 

Dude.

I criticized Sharpe's performance as a football player. Quality.

I didn't criticized his performance compared to other 5th round picks. Why? Because it's fucking irrelevant.

You. Are. Confused.

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1 minute ago, THE_TITAN said:

I think you're confused and have consistently argued against a straw man. 

Yes. Exactly. I have argued against your straw man. Thank you for that.

Moron.

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Just now, Jamalisms said:

Dude.

I criticized Sharpe's performance as a football player. Quality.

I didn't criticized his performance compared to other 5th round picks. Why? Because it's fucking irrelevant.

You. Are. Confused.

Your criticism is harsh for all of the reasons I have outlined above. And, yes, let's measure Sharpe's play against some other NFL WRs, particularly #3s and #4s. I'd take the 22 year old over a bunch of those guys.

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2 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

Yes. Exactly. I have argued against your straw man. Thank you for that.

Moron.

Forgot the 'I', you knew what I meant. No need for ad hominems. 

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Just now, THE_TITAN said:

you knew what I meant

Very true. I am capable of discernment, conversation and intelligent response.

The problem is not me.

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But the whole point is that no one is arguing that we didn't need to upgrade the wide receiver position.

'Quality'.

But there are different levels where you need to measure quality on a roster. Your #1 and #2 WR, then the levels below.

I think when you're looking at Sharpe's body of work last year you do have to be conscious about his draft position, age, experience etc. and all other relevant factors. You can say he wasn't very good in your opinion but I'm measuring his play and potential against other guys and I'm comfortable having him as a depth guy. That's why I thought it was unfair. 

No one is arguing that Sharpe should be a starter, I was just questioning the harshness of your critique in light of all the other factors that I thought relevant - that I have detailed over these responses.

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4 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

Very true. I am capable of discernment, conversation and intelligent response.

The problem is not me.

Your entire argument derives from a false position though. No one is saying you are wrong about the fact that Sharpe shouldn't be a starter, but I do think you were being unduly harsh.

Edited by THE_TITAN

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