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If the Cavs win the NBA title this year, is LeBron the best ever?


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The dirty little secret about Jordan's Bulls titles is that they played in a weak ass, expansion depleted, watered down league. Their path through the East was shit after the Pistons got old. Had Bias not have died of blowcaine overdose in 86 the Celtics could have continued to be very good in the 90s. Bias was most likely Jordan's big rival but cocaine is a hell of a drug. 

 

Most of the 80's Celtics, Lakers and even Sixers finals teams would have shit on most of the 90's bulls teams. 

The Bulls played an old ass Jazz team in their last 2 90's finals. Go back and look at the 1988 Jazz team that failed to get out of the West. Same core of Stockton and Malone but much deeper and couldn't even make it out of the West 10 years prior. That's how fuckin weak the late 90's West was. East wasn't any better. The Bulls were the only finals worthy team. 

 

Jordan did not make guys better in the same way that Bird, Magic and Lebron did/do in terms of making a concerted effort to play team basketball and make them better than they are. He made guys better by being such an unstoppable offensive force that the attention that other guys got opportunities. 

So could Jordan do with this out manned, injured Cavs teams what Lebron is doing? FUCK naw. They'd lose 4-2 in the 2nd round with Jordan averaging 46 a game, trying to do everything himself, badgering his teammates for not being good enough, not being as good as him-- basically being the cocksucker he was. Similar to what he did in 86. Yeah he averaged 46 for the series. The Celtics SWEPT them. 

Jordan is certainly in the conversation of best of all time but he is simply not the clear cut easy choice like everyone seems to indicate.

Hilariously ironic this is on a Lebron thread...

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​"Hey Nator, how was your memorial day weekend?"   "You know what?? FUCK Michael Jordan."

NO.      I'm a big fan of Lebron's actually--but Jordan? He doesn't sniff Jordan. I think time allows us to forget how truly great Jordan was. Not only was he easily the best, most dominant player-

I've never seen an easier path to the finals than Lebron's last four (including this year). Can anyone name a decent matchup they've faced to the finals? Talking about what Jordan had to go through co

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Slightly off topic, butttt...

Lebron, for whatever reason, has been one of the most hated basketball players in NBA history. 

People blame it on "the decision", but the hatred was there long before that ESPN show in which he gave all the proceeds to charity AND most NBA fans even chose to watch or listen on the radio.

Kobe, Jordan, Magic, etc. never had the amount of unfounded hatred Lebron has had to endure. All in all, Lebron seems to be less of an asshole than all these guys.

I think a lot has to do with "Jordan is the greatest ever" crowd (which is a huge one) taking offense to Lebron being crowned as the next Jordan coming out of high school. Nevertheless, he has lived up to it. Kobe was as well, but never received the hatred of Lebron, even after allegedly raping a gold digging white woman. Lebron is an anomaly in the basketball hatred world in my opinion.

Only Kobe and Lebron constantly pouted like little bitches after every call. But only one rolled on his team. 

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I think a lot of the LeBron hate comes from the unprecedented media coverage. Folks got over saturated from the coverage leading up to "The Decision", the nonstop media coverage. Of course, fans forget they were the consumers of it all, and it wouldn't have been on there in the first place. It was the perfect storm. LeBron is a great teammate, much more liked by his peers than Jordan and Kobe. 

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The only team who could be considered better was the Spurs, in year four, who beat them. That's it. Feel free to name a better team those first three years. 

He looks much better playing with the current roster of scrubs than he ever looked in Miami.

Look at Miami without him and look at him without Miami. Miami was 37-45 this year. If they were the best team in the NBA, they could still be competitive without Lebron. Bosh and Wade are jokes.

 

To answer your question, I thought the pacers were a better team last year.

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​And lost in 4 games.  Face the facts.  Lebron didn't have great success until he had a team around him in Miami.  So, assume Jordan goes to Miami in the middle of his prime with that group.  Does he win championships?  Of course he does.

When did Jordan's team ever lose with the #1 seed?

Which guy bailed on his team and signed himself into a circus to win championships?  For that Lebron will never be Jordan.

​Obviously Jordan would win championships in Miami with that group.  No one said otherwise.

The fact LeBron left a shit franchise to go win championships elsewhere does not mean he is not the better player.  If anything, the fact he came back to prove he could put them on his back and win them a championship makes him more of a legend.

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He looks much better playing with the current roster of scrubs than he ever looked in Miami.

Look at Miami without him and look at him without Miami. Miami was 37-45 this year. If they were the best team in the NBA, they could still be competitive without Lebron. Bosh and Wade are jokes.

 

To answer your question, I thought the pacers were a better team last year.

Wade and Bosh are broken downdown, and they lost a ton of players to retirement and free agency. I said two years ago they were the best team, not last year. 

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​Obviously Jordan would win championships in Miami with that group.  No one said otherwise.

The fact LeBron left a shit franchise to go win championships elsewhere does not mean he is not the better player.  If anything, the fact he came back to prove he could put them on his back and win them a championship makes him more of a legend.

More like he was still chasing championships. He left an old, broken down team for a team with, once again, two of the top 20 players in the league. He also picked up two of the best 6th men in JR Smith and Shumpert...acting like he did this for some magnanimous reason is laughable. He went back for the same reason he left. 

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I think a lot of the LeBron hate comes from the unprecedented media coverage. Folks got over saturated from the coverage leading up to "The Decision", the nonstop media coverage. Of course, fans forget they were the consumers of it all, and it wouldn't have been on there in the first place. It was the perfect storm. LeBron is a great teammate, much more liked by his peers than Jordan and Kobe. 

He's also a cry baby bitch who whines and complains about every single call. I can't stand the guy. His game is soft. He would never put up these numbers in a league with hand checking because he's never developed a jump shot, especially a turn around jumper. His entire game is predicated on the fact defenders have to follow him on his hip and physically are not allowed to keep him out of the paint. 

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He's also a cry baby bitch who whines and complains about every single call. I can't stand the guy. His game is soft. He would never put up these numbers in a league with hand checking because he's never developed a jump shot, especially a turn around jumper. His entire game is predicated on the fact defenders have to follow him on his hip and physically are not allowed to keep him out of the paint. 

​I'm sorry, but whenever I hear this kind of thing I just think it is totally weak. He is one of the most physically dominant players in the game, yes. He also has a ridiculous court IQ and superb court vision. The whole "cry baby bitch" thing is a perception you can have if you like--but it's just that, a perception. 

The reason he left Miami is probably an amalgamation of many of these reasons, but it wasn't solely because the team was better. When he went to Cleveland, for example, there was no guarantee he'd get Love and the roster was not in great shape by any means. Guys like Kyrie and Waiters were going to have to learn on the fly, and totally change the nature of their game. Whereas in Miami he had been to 4 straight finals, had a coach he trusted, and a GM who was willing to reinvent the team at his will. 

So it wasn't clear cut that Miami had gotten old and needed to move on. It wasn't a stone cold lock in terms of roster decisions. That said, of course he weighed the roster. 

I think it's more likely it was an emotional move for LeBron, wanting to go home, wanting to play with a high school esque crew in terms of closeness--that's what he's been looking for. I think he left the first time to play with his friends and win a championship--he checked off both of those boxes, and he matured to the point that he could return and be a hometown hero. 

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More like he was still chasing championships. He left an old, broken down team for a team with, once again, two of the top 20 players in the league. He also picked up two of the best 6th men in JR Smith and Shumpert...acting like he did this for some magnanimous reason is laughable. He went back for the same reason he left. 

​Who were the two "top 20" players on Cleveland's roster when LeBron signed with them?

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​I'm sorry, but whenever I hear this kind of thing I just think it is totally weak. He is one of the most physically dominant players in the game, yes. He also has a ridiculous court IQ and superb court vision. The whole "cry baby bitch" thing is a perception you can have if you like--but it's just that, a perception. 

The reason he left Miami is probably an amalgamation of many of these reasons, but it wasn't solely because the team was better. When he went to Cleveland, for example, there was no guarantee he'd get Love and the roster was not in great shape by any means. Guys like Kyrie and Waiters were going to have to learn on the fly, and totally change the nature of their game. Whereas in Miami he had been to 4 straight finals, had a coach he trusted, and a GM who was willing to reinvent the team at his will. 

So it wasn't clear cut that Miami had gotten old and needed to move on. It wasn't a stone cold lock in terms of roster decisions. That said, of course he weighed the roster. 

I think it's more likely it was an emotional move for LeBron, wanting to go home, wanting to play with a high school esque crew in terms of closeness--that's what he's been looking for. I think he left the first time to play with his friends and win a championship--he checked off both of those boxes, and he matured to the point that he could return and be a hometown hero. 

It isn't a perception. It's reality. Look at game three, where he was totally dominant, got the ball stolen in the closing minutes, and sat there crying like a bitch. 

 

He left Cleveland for Wade and Bosh, two top players, obviously going for championships. He left Miami when they were a shell of the team four years prior. A GM and coach he trusts? Lol. He went to Irving and the top pick, knowing he was either going to have Irving and a beast, or Irving and Love. Come on, even the apologists know he left for a better team, whatever his reasoning. 

 

He is a physical freak, no doubt about it, but his game would not be close to what it is if defenders could check him with their hands. The game used to be a lot different. Scoring is a lot easier now. There's just no arguing against it. 

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