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If the Cavs win the NBA title this year, is LeBron the best ever?


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​They had a fantastic run in the regular season for sure, but I think you are seeing in these early games that these guys haven't been there before. Still, they are one of the best teams I've seen at closing huge gaps (even though that means they are giving up big leads). I still think they have more than enough time to turn it around, but this GS team needs to play together for a few more years until they have "it" and can be called one of the best (even if they pull it out). 

​They are fun to watch but they remind me of the Suns teams led by Nash about 10 years ago. I think the criticism coming out the past few days on the mental toughness of the Warriors is valid. I also think Kerr being a rookie head coach is a problem for them. They may still turn the series around and win but I right now they are in serious trouble.

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​"Hey Nator, how was your memorial day weekend?"   "You know what?? FUCK Michael Jordan."

NO.      I'm a big fan of Lebron's actually--but Jordan? He doesn't sniff Jordan. I think time allows us to forget how truly great Jordan was. Not only was he easily the best, most dominant player-

I've never seen an easier path to the finals than Lebron's last four (including this year). Can anyone name a decent matchup they've faced to the finals? Talking about what Jordan had to go through co

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​They are fun to watch but they remind me of the Suns teams led by Nash about 10 years ago. I think the criticism coming out the past few days on the mental toughness of the Warriors is valid. I also think Kerr being a rookie head coach is a problem for them. They may still turn the series around and win but I right now they are in serious trouble.

​I agree with everything but serious trouble. I put them there if they lose tonight. I think they could turn it around big time with a big win. If both Klay and Curry can get hot, they'll get it, and with Shumpert banged up and Delly gassed, I could see it happening. 

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The more common narrative I heard was Scottie Pippen was the most overrated player in the league and would not even be an all star without Jordan. 

 

Not saying it was true...but the narrative I always heard was very different than what Nator is pitching. 

 

He got a lot more respect when Jordan played Baseball and Scottie becomes the guy but he ultimately took the Bulls nowhere.

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​I agree with everything but serious trouble. I put them there if they lose tonight. I think they could turn it around big time with a big win. If both Klay and Curry can get hot, they'll get it, and with Shumpert banged up and Delly gassed, I could see it happening. 

​When I say they are in trouble it has more to do with the fact the Cavs have imposed their will on them and are dictating the pace then it does being down 1-2.

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I don't know who you were getting that info from but it's astonishingly short sighted. Pippen made the 50 best players ever list. 20points 7rebounds, 6 assists, 2.2 steals and a block per game, guarded the other teams best player during the Bulls run of 91-98. When you break down their games into components, Pippen was actually a little better at rebounding, passing, and defending than Jordan (and 3-point shooting). 

 

Jordan left and they won only 2 less games without the supposed "Best player of all time hands down". That pretty much puts an end to that argument unequivocally. Jordan won 0 titles without Scottie as well. 

 

In 1994 it took the worst call of all time to put the Knicks over the Bulls (they eventually won in 7 games). 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?page=Hollins-090529

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-10-13/sports/9410130277_1_knicks-guard-hubert-davis-bulls-hue-hollins

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Right, so Pippen was a monster. Who doesn't know this? I'd say he's top 30. So we have the greatest player, a top 30 player, and Grant, who was also a beast to go with a great supporting cast, never lost a finals, or even made it to game seven, but it's certain they would have lost to the Celtics, Lakers, and Shaw led Lakers...right. Going in circles. 

 

As for Love, he was shooting 41% from the field...that's awful. He was pretty terrible all year. He isn't made to play the Bosh role and the defense is a lot better without him in the game. So, I don't really care about the ten points, as those now go to Lebron; and on top of that the defense is playing lights out now thanks to him and Dova. 

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The more common narrative I heard was Scottie Pippen was the most overrated player in the league and would not even be an all star without Jordan. 

 

Not saying it was true...but the narrative I always heard was very different than what Nator is pitching. 

 

He got a lot more respect when Jordan played Baseball and Scottie becomes the guy but he ultimately took the Bulls nowhere.

That's the narrative most people are familiar with. It's the most accurate narrarive. Pippen was a good player, good enough to get the Bulls to the playoffs with Grant and co. But Jordan is what made that team special. Had he not been retired in 93-94 the Rockets would not have won the championship.

Nator, for whatever reason, is determined to re-write history. His hate for Jordan is transparent as fuck. Why? Who the hell knows? Maybe Jordan ignored his pimple faced ass when he was in town to play the Sounds during his baseball stint. Couldn't get that autograph he desperately craved and bragged to all his friends he would get. Maybe he's an uber fan of the Pacers/Kicks/Pistons/whoever. Maybe he's just a contrary curmudgeonly old bitch who isn't happy unless he's pissing in somebody's Cheerios. Maybe all of the above.

My bet is he's a closet Jordan fan who can't come to terms with it so he lashes out at all things Jordan to over-compensate.

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​I don't care what some super nerd has to say about data analytics and the NBA. Golden State is nowhere near as good as the top tier teams we've seen over the past 30 years. Its a joke to say otherwise. Lets not forget they haven't even played a full series against the other teams starting PG this playoff run.

​I don't think they are better than last year's Spurs team that beat the Heat.  And you make a good point on the injuries of the other teams in the Western Conference.  They basically just waited for the 2-7 and 3-6 matchups to destroy one another while they had an easier path facing NO and a beatup Grizzlies team which still has problems shooting.

They also chuck up a lot of questionable shots.

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The more common narrative I heard was Scottie Pippen was the most overrated player in the league and would not even be an all star without Jordan. 

 

Not saying it was true...but the narrative I always heard was very different than what Nator is pitching. 

 

He got a lot more respect when Jordan played Baseball and Scottie becomes the guy but he ultimately took the Bulls nowhere.

Do you think Jordan and the Bulls win it all if Scottie took off to play baseball?

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Do you think Jordan and the Bulls win it all if Scottie took off to play baseball?

Just cut through the bs. Why is LeBron given a pass for past failures and afforded this assumption carte blanche that it's all him? Do you think he would be where he's at right now if he were a member of the Timberwolves? How about the Knicks? 

You are acting like the Cavs are the worst thing since a mashed loaf of sliced bread. I don't know what the context of the wins were, but they won 33 games last year. .400 ball is obviously not a success, but it's not the worst finish of all time. To hear you talk the Cavs would have been lucky to win 12 games without LeBron this year, which is just silly considering they won over 50.

Even the best players don't win by themselves. You think Larry Bird would have won as much without Parish and McHale? Magic without Kareem and Worthy? Malone had Stockton, Shaq had Kobe (and to a lesser extent, Penny Hardaway before that), Olajuwan had Horry and Kenny Smith... HELL, LeBron had Wade and Bosh. This thread wouldn't even exist if he hadn't had them.

Would Jordan have won without Pippen? Maybe not. But you should strongly reconsider buying into this hype that LeBron somehow strapped driftwood to his back this year and carried it all the way to the Finals. It's stupid and actually hurts the argument that the teams Jordan faced were trash back in the day. You can't possibly not say the same thing about this year's teams if that's the case.

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lebron willl never eeevverrrr be better than jordan. if jordan didnt play baseball he has at least another ring. if anyone takes lebron in his prime over jordan in his prime i take jordan and become rich

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Do you think Jordan and the Bulls win it all if Scottie took off to play baseball?

​I guess it depends who you replaced him with. 

 

Jordan was irreplaceable.

 

I suspect the Bulls would have replaced Pippen akin to the Pistons replacing Adrian Dantley with Mark Aguirre.

 

I don;t have a strong opinion on whether or not Pippen was overrated or underrated but I do not think he was some transcendent talent that could not be replaced. 

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Just cut through the bs. Why is LeBron given a pass for past failures and afforded this assumption carte blanche that it's all him? Do you think he would be where he's at right now if he were a member of the Timberwolves? How about the Knicks? 

You are acting like the Cavs are the worst thing since a mashed loaf of sliced bread. I don't know what the context of the wins were, but they won 33 games last year. .400 ball is obviously not a success, but it's not the worst finish of all time. To hear you talk the Cavs would have been lucky to win 12 games without LeBron this year, which is just silly considering they won over 50.

Even the best players don't win by themselves. You think Larry Bird would have won as much without Parish and McHale? Magic without Kareem and Worthy? Malone had Stockton, Shaq had Kobe (and to a lesser extent, Penny Hardaway before that), Olajuwan had Horry and Kenny Smith... HELL, LeBron had Wade and Bosh. This thread wouldn't even exist if he hadn't had them.

Would Jordan have won without Pippen? Maybe not. But you should strongly reconsider buying into this hype that LeBron somehow strapped driftwood to his back this year and carried it all the way to the Finals. It's stupid and actually hurts the argument that the teams Jordan faced were trash back in the day. You can't possibly not say the same thing about this year's teams if that's the case.

​It's not an assumption that it's all him.  It IS all him (or mostly him).

I agree even the best players don't win by themselves.  However, LeBron has never had a supporting cast like Parish/McHale, Kareem/Worthy, etc.  Wade was a very good player before LeBron got to Miami and he certainly played a big role in their championships but he had injury issues and wasn't on the same level as those other guys while on the down side of his career and Bosh isn't even close.

The Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, etc. were still able to score, win games, and be highly competitive when their #1 guy was injured or had an off night.  When LeBron isn't on, his team gets smoked.

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