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If the Cavs win the NBA title this year, is LeBron the best ever?


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Nator you had me with the supporting cast and better competition angle. 

However:

- After hearing Rautins say the Cavs teams Jordan beat on the way to the finals were actually better than the cavs now

 

- After being reminded that Jordan was also the best defensive player in the league

 

- Noting that the only championships Lebron has won to date canme with Bosh, Allen, Wade et Al....

 

I'm coming back to Jordan here. 

 

Yes I believe even if the Cavs don't win this series this playoff performance, maybe,  ranks right up there with anything Jordan did...but it's one year. 

 

 

That Cavs comment was simply massive, massive mental retardation. You could dismiss everything else the guy said just based on that. Jordan played during the weakest, most expansion depleted league in history, ESPECIALLY the 2 3-peat. The first repeat the league wasn't horrible because the damage from expansion was just starting to be felt. The first few years of the 90's were like 80's lite in terms of talent per team. Remember the league expanded by 6 teams from 88-89 to 96. That greatly diluted the talent pool. 

 

Jordan's defense is a bit overrated. James is a bit underrated. 

 

Jordan was an all defensive type guard for the first half of his career but when Pippen got there, that guy was the real pit bull defender (Jordan was more of a passing lane jumper, team defender than a shut down guy ESPECIALLY once you got to the 90s). Pippen would guard the other teams best offensive player. Not Jordan. Jordan was no Gary Payton on D and by the 2nd half of his career he was making the All D team based on reputation. Excellent defender? Yes. All time great perimeter defender? No. Lebron is an excellent defender who makes the All D team ever year too. 

 

And again, Lebron has at least a half dozen more years. He's a better all around, team player and he doesn't butt fuck his trophies. 

 

 

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​"Hey Nator, how was your memorial day weekend?"   "You know what?? FUCK Michael Jordan."

NO.      I'm a big fan of Lebron's actually--but Jordan? He doesn't sniff Jordan. I think time allows us to forget how truly great Jordan was. Not only was he easily the best, most dominant player-

I've never seen an easier path to the finals than Lebron's last four (including this year). Can anyone name a decent matchup they've faced to the finals? Talking about what Jordan had to go through co

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​You are pretty much embarrassing yourself every time you type at this point. 

 

There isn't an NBA basketball mind on the entire planet that would take Triston (8.5 ppg) over Kevin Love. Christ. 

Love is awful at defense, his rebounds were down, as was his fg%. Thompson is a shut down defender and better rebounder. The extra 8 points a game is little compared to being the best defender on the court. 

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And again, Lebron has at least a half dozen more years. He's a better all around, team player and he doesn't butt fuck his trophies. 

 

 

From this comment and the other similar ones...It seems there is one thing we all agree on.

 

IE: James has a way to go before being considered Jordan's equal.

 

We'll see how these next few years shape up. Right now this isn;t much of a conversation with James winning all his championships on some  sort of dream team and even losing a couple in spite of the massive talent that was there.

 

This year changes that context to a big degree but we're a long way off 6 championships which is probably 8 if he doesn't play baseball. 

 

You had another point that was very salient. The illegal defense rule and the ability to pull the big guys out of the key in Jordan's era. 

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Love is awful at defense, his rebounds were down, as was his fg%. Thompson is a shut down defender and better rebounder. The extra 8 points a game is little compared to being the best defender on the court. 

"​Thompson is a shut down defender"

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​Larry had 36, 12 and 8 and the Celtics swept them. 

Yes but at the same time everyone understood the torch had been passed and that Larry was no longer the big dog. 

 

Larry did not like Jordan as you well know, it was obvious at this point that MJ was the most unstoppable offensive force in the NBA and it was just going to get uglier for everyone go forward,  and his blonde hairs on his butt were very hurt by all this. 

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Yeah, actually, he is, but continue on with the Lebron Fapping. 

Oh, and I looked up some stats. Love in four playoff games was averaging a whopping 14 points on 41% with 7 rebounds. Thompson is at 8.5 with 11 rebounds on 56%. He's a beast on the boards and has shut down Traymon Green. Yeah, he's definitely the third best player on the team. Love added little on offense, nothing on defense, and his rebounds were down to 7 a game. 

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It was far from a "dream team". God forbid James play with some talent. Wade was older, and always injury prone. He was like Scottie with a little better O but not near the D. Bosh is a finesse PF. Again it's simply trading offense for defense compared to Jordan and his PF's, Grant and Rodman. It's a wash, really talent wise between the two teams. The Heat were probably deeper because the league is deeper but the competition is also better. The Spurs were worlds better than the friggin old ass Jazz teams Jordan beat. 

 

Jordan also had great defensive PFs in Grant and Rodman, plus role players and certain types of spot up shooters that that team needed that were basically clones of one another, PLUS the greatest coach of all time to institute a more flowing team first offense against Jordan's will. That can't be understated enough, 

 

I look at it like this, take 4 average NBA players, put them with Lebron and give clones to Jordan. Lebron beats Jordan. He makes his average teammates better by being a TEAM player. Of course in that scenario Magic beats Jordan and Bird beats Jordan. 

 

That's a contextual  argument, sure.

 

Jordan needed the greatest stretch perimeter defender of all time and awesome 20PPG all around player in Pippen to win titles

In fact it could be argued that Pippen was the 2nd best all around player in the NBA for a few years there with Jordan. Remember when Jordan left to jerk off with the minor league baseball team in Alabama? The Bulls won only TWO LESS GAMES the following year led by Scottie Pippen. Pippen was buttfucked by a horrible call in the Knicks series or they may have made the finals again. Those Bulls teams were talented and well constructed. TWO less games for the "greatest of all time". Dude, look at the Heats record last year and check this year. 

 

 

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Yeah, actually, he is, but continue on with the Lebron Fapping. 

Oh, and I looked up some stats. Love in four playoff games was averaging a whopping 14 points on 41% with 7 rebounds. Thompson is at 8.5 with 11 rebounds on 56%. He's a beast on the boards and has shut down Traymon Green. Yeah, he's definitely the third best player on the team. Love added little on offense, nothing on defense, and his rebounds were down to 7 a game. 

​Shut down, who? 

 

Also, it is clear you don't know what you are talking about considering Draymond Green's game and your comments about Thompson on defense. I think Thompson is playing well and his rebound has turned stretches of this series, but he's hardly even a plus defender. He's playing better than his regular defense, but Moz is having more of an impact there, especially on help D. Besides, Bogut and Green aren't threats as scorers anyway. You may be watching the games but I'm not sure if you actually understand them. 

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Yeah, actually, he is, but continue on with the Lebron Fapping. 

Oh, and I looked up some stats. Love in four playoff games was averaging a whopping 14 points on 41% with 7 rebounds. Thompson is at 8.5 with 11 rebounds on 56%. He's a beast on the boards and has shut down Traymon Green. Yeah, he's definitely the third best player on the team. Love added little on offense, nothing on defense, and his rebounds were down to 7 a game. 

​Hey doodie britches, are you going to offer any context for your stats at all? 

Kevin Love was hurt 6 minutes and 38 seconds into his 4th playoff game. Shit like that tends to bring down the ole averages. 

He was 18 points, 9 boards, 3 assists and 47% from downtown in the 3 games prior. 

But let's hear more about Dennis Rodm--mer I mean, Ben Walla-er, I mean Tristan Thompson. 

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​Hey doodie britches, are you going to offer any context for your stats at all? 

Kevin Love was hurt 6 minutes and 38 seconds into his 4th playoff game. Shit like that tends to bring down the ole averages. 

He was 18 points, 9 boards, 3 assists and 47% from downtown in the 3 games prior. 

But let's hear more about Dennis Rodm--mer I mean, Ben Walla-er, I mean Tristan Thompson. 

I mean that's the thing. You can talk about how good Tristan Thompson has played and accurately describe his impact at the same time. His contributions on the offensive glass have helped suffocate the GS fastbreak, which is huge. That hardly makes him Horace Grant. 

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​If the lose this series they will be the first team in NBA history to win 80 games(regular and playoffs combined) and not win the title.

There are all kinds of metrics that show they are one of the best NBA teams in history.

I saw someone compare it to the Giants beating the undefeated Patriots. I think that's the perfect comparison because it's all about match-ups and the Cavs are matching up great.

It's also pretty important to note, GS hasn't lost this series yet.

​I don't care what some super nerd has to say about data analytics and the NBA. Golden State is nowhere near as good as the top tier teams we've seen over the past 30 years. Its a joke to say otherwise. Lets not forget they haven't even played a full series against the other teams starting PG this playoff run.

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​I don't care what some super nerd has to say about data analytics and the NBA. Golden State is nowhere near as good as the top tier teams we've seen over the past 30 years. Its a joke to say otherwise. Lets not forget they haven't even played a full series against the other teams starting PG this playoff run.

​They had a fantastic run in the regular season for sure, but I think you are seeing in these early games that these guys haven't been there before. Still, they are one of the best teams I've seen at closing huge gaps (even though that means they are giving up big leads). I still think they have more than enough time to turn it around, but this GS team needs to play together for a few more years until they have "it" and can be called one of the best (even if they pull it out). 

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