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NashvilleNinja

So, did Tony die at the end or what?

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Lol

 

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a25843972/the-sopranos-creator-david-chase-confirms-tony-soprano-death/

 

Yep... he died. The clues are all over the episode even before the final scene.

 

Chase didn't need to show Tony's death scene. He'd already shown it many times, either in the attempts on Tony's life by his uncle or in the deaths of many other characters. We didn't need to know how Carm, Meadow, and AJ would react in that moment. We saw it in Phil Leotardo's wife when he got popped at the gas station earlier in the episode.

 

Tony didn't hear it coming.

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Omar   

No, he did not die. Life just went on. He made peace with NY, he was not just killed in front of his family by some random person. 

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17 hours ago, Omar said:

No, he did not die. Life just went on. He made peace with NY, he was not just killed in front of his family by some random person. 

Who said it has to be random? Tony had many enemies. Patsy Parisi, for one, never really forgave Tony for having his brother whacked. NY could have played Tony the same way they played Phil Leotardo to get both of them out of the way. It could also be a proactive measure to protect "family" business due to the fact Tony was soon to be indicted. Just cut off the head of the snake and leave the FBI at a loss. Also, just because the guy in the Members Only jacket isn't someone you've seen in the show doesn't mean it's random.

 

The point of that scene was to illustrate Tony's death. Whether it was in that diner or some other day, he was marked for death. We all are, but when you live the life he lived you're begging for it. The cut to black leaves interpretation up to the viewers, but you'd have to be blind not to see the clues. And the way the final scene was filmed? It's plain as day in retrospect. Chase has even been quoted as saying he had Tony's death planned two years before that final season but it ultimately didn't play out that way. He said you wouldn't necessarily seen his death, but you'd know he wasn't coming back from a meeting in NY alive.

 

Chase can't and probably won't ever come out and say "yeah, Tony died there" because it would take away from all the controversy and discussion. If he'd had some big, bloody final scene there would be no ambiguity and people would have moved on from this show a long time ago. Instead, people still debate this shit heavily and the show still has an aura of mystery about it because of it. It was a stroke of genius on Chase's part, even if he tries to downplay his motives in the media.  But like he says, the clues are all there in the episode.

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On 1/20/2019 at 1:03 PM, NashvilleNinja said:

Who said it has to be random? Tony had many enemies. Patsy Parisi, for one, never really forgave Tony for having his brother whacked. NY could have played Tony the same way they played Phil Leotardo to get both of them out of the way. It could also be a proactive measure to protect "family" business due to the fact Tony was soon to be indicted. Just cut off the head of the snake and leave the FBI at a loss. Also, just because the guy in the Members Only jacket isn't someone you've seen in the show doesn't mean it's random.

 

The point of that scene was to illustrate Tony's death. Whether it was in that diner or some other day, he was marked for death. We all are, but when you live the life he lived you're begging for it. The cut to black leaves interpretation up to the viewers, but you'd have to be blind not to see the clues. And the way the final scene was filmed? It's plain as day in retrospect. Chase has even been quoted as saying he had Tony's death planned two years before that final season but it ultimately didn't play out that way. He said you wouldn't necessarily seen his death, but you'd know he wasn't coming back from a meeting in NY alive.

 

Chase can't and probably won't ever come out and say "yeah, Tony died there" because it would take away from all the controversy and discussion. If he'd had some big, bloody final scene there would be no ambiguity and people would have moved on from this show a long time ago. Instead, people still debate this shit heavily and the show still has an aura of mystery about it because of it. It was a stroke of genius on Chase's part, even if he tries to downplay his motives in the media.  But like he says, the clues are all there in the episode.

YEP...anyone who isn't convinced that the final scene is Tony's death needs to simply read the Master of Sopranos blog where that dude wrote a 20,000 word essay detailing all of the symbolism, directing techniques, foreshadowing, and patterns that Chase uses to tell you exactly what happened to Tony without saying it directly. This is why the Sopranos is the greatest show in the history of television....and it's not even close.

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3 hours ago, woolfolksunclesuncle said:

YEP...anyone who isn't convinced that the final scene is Tony's death needs to simply read the Master of Sopranos blog where that dude wrote a 20,000 word essay detailing all of the symbolism, directing techniques, foreshadowing, and patterns that Chase uses to tell you exactly what happened to Tony without saying it directly. This is why the Sopranos is the greatest show in the history of television....and it's not even close.

That blog entry is always the first thing that comes to mind when I think about that last scene. I've read it a couple times, though it's been a while. But reading that entry left no doubt in my mind what happened. I didn't understand the scene back when I first saw it because I could feel the tension just the way the scene was cutting from one camera shot to the next. And even though I didn't quite understand the various characters in the restaurant, the guy in the tan jacket made me nervous even though he never says a word and Tony barely even acknowledges the guy is there. After I read that blog I understood why I felt the tension. Chase was setting everyone up the whole time.

 

Some of Chase's fans say it was his way of punking out all the people who had cheered on a homicidal sociopath only to be pissed not to see him go out Scarface style, but I don't think Chase thought that way. Maybe he did get a little satisfaction at the idea that it pissed some of those people off, but it seems a petty and simple-minded goal if that was the point of the scene. Besides, if it really were the case that he wrote that scene just to piss those people off then it just makes Chase an enormous hypocrite because he's the one who wrote the Tony character and filmed the episodes in such a way as to make him relatable, to lend sympathy toward him, and even nudge people to root him on at times.

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4 hours ago, NashvilleNinja said:

That blog entry is always the first thing that comes to mind when I think about that last scene. I've read it a couple times, though it's been a while. But reading that entry left no doubt in my mind what happened. I didn't understand the scene back when I first saw it because I could feel the tension just the way the scene was cutting from one camera shot to the next. And even though I didn't quite understand the various characters in the restaurant, the guy in the tan jacket made me nervous even though he never says a word and Tony barely even acknowledges the guy is there. After I read that blog I understood why I felt the tension. Chase was setting everyone up the whole time.

 

Some of Chase's fans say it was his way of punking out all the people who had cheered on a homicidal sociopath only to be pissed not to see him go out Scarface style, but I don't think Chase thought that way. Maybe he did get a little satisfaction at the idea that it pissed some of those people off, but it seems a petty and simple-minded goal if that was the point of the scene. Besides, if it really were the case that he wrote that scene just to piss those people off then it just makes Chase an enormous hypocrite because he's the one who wrote the Tony character and filmed the episodes in such a way as to make him relatable, to lend sympathy toward him, and even nudge people to root him on at times.

That blog is fucking amazing, and I've wondered a few times while reading it, if the author is actually Chase. When I watched the finale and final scene live, it was the most tension that I've ever felt watching a television show. The entire scene had this anxiety inducing, ominous feeling. Chase was so masterful in setting up the pattern of: bell--->to shot of Tony's face--->to shot of Tony's POV of the person walking through the door, that many Soprano fans were convinced that they saw Meadow enter Holsten's. But, in reality, the fact that you hear the bell--->go to Tony's face--->cut to black (when you're expecting to see Meadow enter Holsten's from Tony's POV) is obvious confirmation that Tony caught a bullet to the brain. That use of camera work, combined with the loads of foreshadowing and symbolism within that scene, just blows my mind. Also, like you mentioned, the guy in the Member's Only jacket wasn't necessarily focused on, but Chase featured him just enough to let you know that this guy wasn't a typical customer----he was special.

 

When I saw it live and the screen cut to black, I was shocked, sitting in that 10 seconds of silence. I literally didn't know what to think. This show was Chase's baby....he would never spend so much time and effort creating incredible depth for all of these characters, inserting symbolism from the 1st episode that explains the ending of the show, and painstakingly edit that final scene to perfection to simply end the series by trolling everyone. Chase is a straight shooter and he has flat-out said that the ending was carefully crafted and that the answer to what happened is all there if you're inclined to look.

 

FUCK, this shit fire me up.   That scene was fucking masterful and cemented the Sopranos as a masterpiece of television/film. I could talk about this show and that final scene all fucking day. Chase is a fucking genius.

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