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Well for anyone who cares to read this, here are my (lengthy) thoughts now that I’ve had a chance to sleep on it.   I’ll start by saying I'm not sure I've ever been more hyped for an episode

I loved the fact that Theon won his fight cause he has no dick. Haha

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I appreciate they need to speed up the timelines but the travel speeds are getting a bit stupid, as I'm sure has been touched on already. Given the diminishing amount of storylines I guess they can't fill in key characters traveling with much else, but this pace wouldn't even make much sense in a modern day setting.

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4 hours ago, OzTitan said:

I appreciate they need to speed up the timelines but the travel speeds are getting a bit stupid, as I'm sure has been touched on already. Given the diminishing amount of storylines I guess they can't fill in key characters traveling with much else, but this pace wouldn't even make much sense in a modern day setting.

 

Yeah, this is honestly making me enjoy the show less and less.  I hope it doesn't get to the point where I treat GoT like I did the Walking Dead after Glenn's resurrection. 

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6 hours ago, titanruss said:

from the GRRM kids book he breathes ice. 

 

 

I think that's a different type of dragon though...

 

The concept of the ice dragon crops up again and again in A Song of Ice and Fire, with Jon recalling in A Dance With Dragons: “The wind was gusting, cold as the breath of the ice dragon in the tales Old Nan had told when Jon was a boy.” (The ice dragon also gets a number of mentions in Jon’s sections of the Telltale Game of Thrones video game.) But what, as far as Martin or Old Nan are concerned, are the properties of an ice dragon? Here we can turn again to A World of Ice and Firewhere Martin wrote:

 

"Of all the queer and fabulous denizens of the Shivering Sea, however, the greatest are the ice dragons. These colossal beasts, many times larger than the dragons of Valyria, are said to be made of living ice, with eyes of pale blue crystal and vast translucent wings through which the moon and stars can be glimpsed as they wheel across the sky. Whereas common dragons (if any dragon can truly be said to be common) breathe flame, ice dragons supposedly breathe cold, a chill so terrible that it can freeze a man solid in half a heartbeat.

 

Sailors from half a hundred nations have glimpsed these great beasts over the centuries, so mayhaps there is some truth behind the tales. Archmaester Margate has suggested that many legends of the north — freezing mists, ice ships, Cannibal Bay, and the like — can be explained as distorted reports of ice-dragon activity. Though an amusing notion, and not without a certain elegance, this remains the purest conjecture. As ice dragons supposedly melt when slain, no actual proof of their existence has ever been found."

 

Okay: though Viserion may be a bit frosty after his dip in a freezing lake, he’s not “made of living ice” with “vast translucent wings” that “melt when slain.” But what about this concept of an icy breath instead of a fiery one?

 

Martin introduced this same concept—of a dragon who can breathe frost instead of flame—in 1980 children’s book he wrote before he even started A Song of Ice and Fire, called, what else, The Ice Dragon. It reads:

 

"The ice dragon was a crystalline white, that shade of white that is so hard and cold that it is almost blue. It was covered with hoarfrost, so when it moved its skin broke and crackled as the crust on the snow crackles beneath a man’s boots, and flakes of rime fell off.

 

Its eyes were clear and deep and icy.

 

And when the ice dragon opened its great mouth, and exhaled, it was not fire that came streaming out, the burning sulfurous stink of lesser dragons. The ice dragon breathed cold.

 

Ice formed when it breathed. Warmth fled. Fires guttered and went out, shriven by the chill. Trees froze through to their slow secret souls, and their limbs turned brittle and cracked from their own weight. Animals turned blue and whimpered and died, their eyes bulging and their skin covered over with frost.

 

The ice dragon breathed death into the world; death and quiet and cold."

 

In that book, the (good) ice dragon is used as a weapon against the (bad) fire dragons. All very creepy and Night King-esque, to be sure. So while Viserion may not be an ice dragon, it’s worth wondering if he’ll breathe freezing blue flame instead of roasting red fire, and if the Night King will use his new ride to spread Winter even faster.

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-6-dragon-dies-zombie-ice-dragon

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13 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

all the same... what else would it breathe?

 

its going to breath cold or ice. if it breathes fire its very bad for its handlers.

 

also this whole ice dragon vs fire dragon got me thinking.... the song of ice and fire. i assumed it was talking about john snow either by himself (being the targaryan (fire) and stark (snow)) or his relationship with dany... or even the relationship between life and death (lord of light and the walkers being death) ... but really, the guy got his inspiration for the whole series from watching his pet fucking turtles in a cage.

 

... little reptiles...

little... dragons.     

 

i dunno.. i'm sure its the dichotomy of everything. 

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GRRM, at least, has been pretty explicit that that old book is not set in the ASOIAF world. Additionally, an ice dragon and an undead fire dragon claimed by ice people are different.

 

It would seem the easiest way to visually distinguish living and dead is have dead be ice... but beyond that (which is admittedly a strong factor) I don't think it's a given that Viserion defaults to ice.

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31 minutes ago, titanruss said:

all the same... what else would it breathe?

 

its going to breath cold or ice. if it breathes fire its very bad for its handlers.

 

also this whole ice dragon vs fire dragon got me thinking.... the song of ice and fire. i assumed it was talking about john snow either by himself (being the targaryan (fire) and stark (snow)) or his relationship with dany... or even the relationship between life and death (lord of light and the walkers being death) ... but really, the guy got his inspiration for the whole series from watching his pet fucking turtles in a cage.

 

... little reptiles...

little... dragons.     

 

i dunno.. i'm sure its the dichotomy of everything. 

I'm not happy with the image of the gimp locked in a cage with turtles.  Or even any other type of pet.  But I suppose that is a crime of nature I'm willing to let slide since we got the books and show.  

 

9 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

GRRM, at least, has been pretty explicit that that old book is not set in the ASOIAF world. Additionally, an ice dragon and an undead fire dragon claimed by ice people are different.

 

It would seem the easiest way to visually distinguish living and dead is have dead be ice... but beyond that (which is admittedly a strong factor) I don't think it's a given that Viserion defaults to ice.

I'm of the mind that the zombie dragon is the show's version of an ice dragon and things will be different in the books.  

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18 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

GRRM, at least, has been pretty explicit that that old book is not set in the ASOIAF world. Additionally, an ice dragon and an undead fire dragon claimed by ice people are different.

 

It would seem the easiest way to visually distinguish living and dead is have dead be ice... but beyond that (which is admittedly a strong factor) I don't think it's a given that Viserion defaults to ice.

so the undead will wield a weapon that can wipe them out.. 

 

zero chance it breathes fire. 

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Wow at this article. Not going to sit well with a lot of fans. I'm honestly stunned a man in his position pulled the "but dragons!!!" argument. Smh. :rolleyes:

 

“It’s funny...I did see one review where he just could not get past the airspeed velocity of a raven. If the show was struggling, if it wasn’t finding an audience, I would be up in arms about that and trying to press back, but it actually just made me laugh,” says Taylor.

 

“You’ve got a [dragon] that’s bigger than a [Boeing] 747 [plane] with seven people riding on its back, and you’re worried about the speed of a raven being believable. OK, obviously, we’re not doing our jobs correctly for you, but it seems to be working for a lot of other people.”

 

Taylor adds: “I know some people...it’s funny, because they’re just torturing themselves. They want to like the show.... The guy I was reading, he obviously got a protractor out and a ruler to measure how fast a raven would get from here to there. But hopefully that didn’t bog down too many people.”

 

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

 

EDIT: This is coming from a DIRECTOR of the show. Not a critic.

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2 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

Wow at this article. Not going to sit well with a lot of fans. I'm honestly stunned a man in his position pulled the "but dragons!!!" argument. Smh. :rolleyes:

 

“It’s funny...I did see one review where he just could not get past the airspeed velocity of a raven. If the show was struggling, if it wasn’t finding an audience, I would be up in arms about that and trying to press back, but it actually just made me laugh,” says Taylor.

 

“You’ve got a [dragon] that’s bigger than a [Boeing] 747 [plane] with seven people riding on its back, and you’re worried about the speed of a raven being believable. OK, obviously, we’re not doing our jobs correctly for you, but it seems to be working for a lot of other people.”

 

Taylor adds: “I know some people...it’s funny, because they’re just torturing themselves. They want to like the show.... The guy I was reading, he obviously got a protractor out and a ruler to measure how fast a raven would get from here to there. But hopefully that didn’t bog down too many people.”

 

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

Explains a lot. Also explains why GRRM has distanced himself from the show.

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3 minutes ago, Jonboy said:

Wow at this article. Not going to sit well with a lot of fans. I'm honestly stunned a man in his position pulled the "but dragons!!!" argument. Smh. :rolleyes:

 

“It’s funny...I did see one review where he just could not get past the airspeed velocity of a raven. If the show was struggling, if it wasn’t finding an audience, I would be up in arms about that and trying to press back, but it actually just made me laugh,” says Taylor.

 

“You’ve got a [dragon] that’s bigger than a [Boeing] 747 [plane] with seven people riding on its back, and you’re worried about the speed of a raven being believable. OK, obviously, we’re not doing our jobs correctly for you, but it seems to be working for a lot of other people.”

 

Taylor adds: “I know some people...it’s funny, because they’re just torturing themselves. They want to like the show.... The guy I was reading, he obviously got a protractor out and a ruler to measure how fast a raven would get from here to there. But hopefully that didn’t bog down too many people.”

 

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

I believe many here have explained this sufficiently but here's an example.  Teen Titans Go! on Cartoon Network can do any damn thing they please and their audience doesn't give a damn.  The "but dragons!!!" argument works.  The whole show is an absurd cartoon that screws with everything (including the original characters' behaviors).  THAT' an example of "but dragons!!!"  A show that bases itself mostly in reality can't do stuff like that.  The type of fiction that GoT aims for is realistic.  Another example is "The Man in High Castle" is fiction but is based in a reality that obviously doesn't exist.  If stupid shit started happening, does it get waved away with a "but it's fiction, so you shouldn't care" excuse?  

 

The Walking Dead sucks now because of stupid shit the writers do, too.  Shows that aim to create a world have more pressure to live in said world.  Shows that live within our reality (sit-coms, crime, etc.) tend not to put themselves in these situations.

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