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Help Me Find Some (Quality) Progressive Thinkers


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6 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

Judging applications on merit isn't systematic discrimination. Stopping asians from attending Harvard because of their race is systematic discrimination. That's affirmative action.

And not judging applications on merit is discrimination. Affirmative action was implemented to keep certain people from being discriminated against based on race. The fact that it isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it didn’t help fight discrimination.

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1 minute ago, Starkiller said:

And not judging applications on merit is discrimination. Affirmative action was implemented to keep certain people from being discriminated against based on race. The fact that it isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it didn’t help fight discrimination.

Affirmative action does the complete opposite of judging applications on merit - hence discrimination versus Asians. It IS discriminating based on race, that's the WHOLE POINT of affirmative action.

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1 hour ago, THE_TITAN said:

Affirmative action does the complete opposite of judging applications on merit - hence discrimination versus Asians. It IS discriminating based on race, that's the WHOLE POINT of affirmative action.

If affirmative action's goal is to set a floor where people of different races all get some guaranteed level of access to a top education then I’d say it has generally been a success. It was intended to prevent universities from being able to keep minorities (black students at the time) from being able to attend. It worked.

 

If the argument against it is that the Ivy leagues aren’t allowing Asian students to take up 80% of the attendance then I’m not too worried. Yes, they probably are plenty deserving of admittance based on merit. But if the goal is diversity then having an 80% Asian admissions rate isn’t helping with diversity.

 

Further, the kids at the top have every opportunity at a good education. They may not get into their top school, but they aren’t being victimized, not are they being turned away from dozens of other top schools that would happily take them. The kids who need some level of protection are the ones at the bottom who might otherwise have no chance at a good education.

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1 hour ago, patsplat said:

There is merit in diversity.

It’s almost as if when a bunch of white guys got together to write the Constitution they somehow didn’t seek to protect the rights of non-whites or of women...

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Liberals and progressives are sick and tired of having to protect minority groups. It's distracting and annoying. Unfortunately, we have no choice because the right is constantly trying to turn the cultural clock back to when "uppity blacks" knew their place, women were just in the kitchen, and gays were just wierdos you could beat up in public. Stop attacking minority groups and I bet you stop seeing the "identity politics" you hate so much. The left is often accused of not caring about asians despite them being a minority group but the plain truth is simply that the left doesn't have to step up for asians that often because the right doesn't attack them on a daily basis. Does that mean that asians have no grievances? Of course not, they could stand to be more represented in the media and people constantly stereotype them. However, they aren't under constant attack by the right thus they don't require as much public defending.

 

If the left didn't stand up for gays and minorities, no one would which is exactly why the right has this new "identity politics" bullshit. They just want the people standing between them and the minority groups to be shamed into standing down so that they can do as they please. Fuck that. Not happening.  You lost the culture war, deal with it. 

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7 hours ago, Starkiller said:

It’s almost as if when a bunch of white guys got together to write the Constitution they somehow didn’t seek to protect the rights of non-whites or of women...

Setting aside that women aren't a  minority...

 

The founders did try to protect the rights of minorities with the Bill of Rights intended to limit the powers of a Congressional majority.

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9 hours ago, THE_TITAN said:

Of opinion, not immutable characteristics.

I'll take a B student who's earned everything he's got over an A student from a private school who's never had to work for anything including those A's.

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23 minutes ago, patsplat said:

I'll take a B student who's earned everything he's got over an A student from a private school who's never had to work for anything including those A's.

Strawman. Many of the Asians applying to Ivy League and are getting rejected based on affirmative action come from modest backgrounds, conversely some of the black students getting in via affirmative actions come from more privileged backgrounds. That's the problem with this type of discrimination, it only takes into account immutable characteristics.

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32 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

Strawman. Many of the Asians applying to Ivy League and are getting rejected based on affirmative action come from modest backgrounds, conversely some of the black students getting in via affirmative actions come from more privileged backgrounds. That's the problem with this type of discrimination, it only takes into account immutable characteristics.

Are you Asian?  Did your kid get rejected?

 

Many white applicants to Ivy League schools get in on the strength of family alumni and donor history.  Does that have anything to do with merit?

 

I suspect your concern about this practice has little to do with you, your kids, or even a general concern about pedagogical matters.

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2 hours ago, patsplat said:

Setting aside that women aren't a  minority...

 

The founders did try to protect the rights of minorities with the Bill of Rights intended to limit the powers of a Congressional majority.

Certainly they were thinking of minorities when they made sure they deserved 3/5ths representation...

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3 hours ago, patsplat said:

Are you Asian?  Did your kid get rejected?

 

Many white applicants to Ivy League schools get in on the strength of family alumni and donor history.  Does that have anything to do with merit?

 

I suspect your concern about this practice has little to do with you, your kids, or even a general concern about pedagogical matters.

My concern is with people with better grades who are getting rejected BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR. 

 

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51 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

My concern is with people with better grades who are getting rejected BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR. 

"Asian" isn't a skin color.

 

But really?  You are so concerned about grades?  Do you care about grade inflation?  Do you care about test scores?  Do you care about test prep?  

 

But let's be honest.  All you really care about is null sum reasoning that if successful people don't match your expectations, somewhere there's a white person who's lost.

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