TerryBoats Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: BB had a 5 or 6 year sample size as a losing HC without Brady You do realize that the Browns had their best record in the past 30 years under Belichick? What a loser. Titansurf32 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Soxcat said: If the same team that almost went undefeated dropped to 11-5 the next year (and certainly wouldn't get to the SB if they did make the playoffs) that says Brady is worth 5 or 6 wins difference to a good team. 5-6 wins on most teams is the difference between 13 wins and 8 wins or 8 wins and 3 wins. Pretty significant. As for Keenan and Minny it is simple. Keenan was like Cassell. Not great but good enough to get the team to the playoffs and make some noise (although Cassell missed the playoffs). The team around Keenan was pretty darn good as was the coaching. Brady on that Minny team means what? It means the Minny coaching staff have SB rings. How hard is that to figure out? That is the main point. BB is a good coach but not good enough to win many Sbs if any without Brady. Brady is a difference maker. Sure, p[ick out a few Browns seasons where BB wasn't shit horrible to make a point. Facts are BB hasn't won shit without Brady and that includes the 2008 season where his team missed the playoffs without Brady after almost going undefeated the year before. It doesn't make BB a shitty coach but shows he is more human than people think. By the way, BB got his ass kicked by an Eagles team with a backup QB. He got beat by a good but not great Giants team twice. He got lucky and beat a Seahawks team on a great play by a guy now on the Titans. Does BB even come close to making to those SBs he lost without Brady? Not a chance. I'm not sure why people keep mentioning 2007, as if it is a norm for Brady to throw 50 TDs and the team to go undefeated. They went 10-6 the year that the returned. On an average year, they win 13-14 games, so compared to an average backup QB like Cassell, he's good for 2-3 more wins. Edited April 26, 2018 by abc2330 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titansurf32 Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 35 minutes ago, abc2330 said: You do realize that the Browns had their best record in the past 30 years under Belichick? What a loser. With a franchise in complete turmoil even by Browns standards. It's alright dude you can drop the mike already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAEA12 Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 40 minutes ago, Titansurf32 said: With a franchise in complete turmoil even by Browns standards. It's alright dude you can drop the mike already Leave @MIKE75 out of this! Titansurf32, and MIKE75 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKE75 Posted April 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) Oilerman is right. Belichick had a 5 or 6 year sample size as a losing HC without Brady. Belichick had multiple losing seasons at Cleveland. 1991 through 1995......5 years head coach Belichick then goes to New England and has a 5-11 record his first year there. 2000......Year 6 head coach Belichick is well on his way in N.E. to another losing record his second year starting 0-2.....Year 7 head coach Belichick had 41 wins and 57 losses which is a losing record in nearly 100 NFL games without Brady...7 years --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After 7 years Belichick was head coaching in his 99th NFL game or his 18th game in New England and so far he was 41 and 57 overall and 5-13 in New England without Brady. In the 3rd game of the 2001 season Tom Brady plays and from that very day forward everything changes for Belichick's coaching career and the New England Patriots. This means Tom Brady helped Bill Belichick start to become a winning head coach. Once Brady arrived everything got better. From that 1st year 2001 through the 17th year 2017 the Patriots,Belichick and Brady have achieved more success than any NFL team in the Super Bowl era as they have 17 straight winning seasons,15 postseason berths,27 playoff wins,12 AFC Championship game appearances,8 times AFC Champions,8 Super Bowl appearances and 5 Super Bowl wins. Edited April 26, 2018 by MIKE75 OILERMAN, and XAEA12 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKE75 Posted April 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 The closest team to this kind of success in the Super Bowl era is the San Francisco 49ers from 1981 through 1998 they had 17 winning seasons,1 losing season and had 16 straight winning seasons,16 postseason berths,22 playoff wins,played in 10 NFC Championship games,Won 5 NFC Championships,Had 5 Super Bowl appearances and won 5 Super Bowls. But the 49ers had two head coaches Walsh and Seifert and two QB's Montana and Young during that span whereas the Patriots had 1 head coach Belichick and 1 QB Brady. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKE75 Posted April 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 From 1966 to 1985 the Cowboys 20 straight winning seasons,20 playoff wins,18 postseason berths,12 NFC Championship appearances,5 Super Bowl appearances winning 2 Super Bowls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nine Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 Pointless discussions based on opinions and if/but rhetoric are always the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 43 minutes ago, MIKE75 said: Oilerman is right. Belichick had a 5 or 6 year sample size as a losing HC without Brady. Belichick had multiple losing seasons at Cleveland. 1991 through 1995......5 years head coach Belichick then goes to New England and has a 5-11 record his first year there. 2000......Year 6 head coach Belichick is well on his way in N.E. to another losing record his second year starting 0-2.....Year 7 head coach Belichick had 41 wins and 57 losses which is a losing record in nearly 100 NFL games without Brady...7 years --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After 7 years Belichick was head coaching in his 99th NFL game or his 18th game in New England and so far he was 41 and 57 overall and 5-13 in New England without Brady. In the 3rd game of the 2001 season Tom Brady plays and from that very day forward everything changes for Belichick's coaching career and the New England Patriots. This means Tom Brady helped Bill Belichick start to become a winning head coach. Once Brady arrived everything got better. From that 1st year 2001 through the 17th year 2017 the Patriots,Belichick and Brady have achieved more success than any NFL team in the Super Bowl era as they have 17 straight winning seasons,15 postseason berths,27 playoff wins,12 AFC Championship game appearances,8 times AFC Champions,8 Super Bowl appearances and 5 Super Bowl wins. Let's try an exercise, using the SB winning years from early in Brady's career. One set of data represents how his QB rating was in relation to the other QBs in the league, and the other represents points allowed by the NE defense. Which do you think played a greater factor in the success of the team during these years? 2001- 6th 2003- 1st 2004- 3rd 2001- 22nd 2003- 22nd 2004- 15th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 4 hours ago, abc2330 said: fYou do realize that the Browns had their best record in the past 30 years under Belichick? What a loser. I said he's the best HC of all time and did a great job in Cleveland. You keep making this ridiculous argument that because BB needed Brady to win Championships it means he's a "loser". XAEA12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: I said he's the best HC of all time and did a great job in Cleveland. You keep making this ridiculous argument that because BB needed Brady to win Championships it means he's a "loser". If a championship only required the QB with the 22nd best QB rating in the league, there would be a lot more champions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKE75 Posted April 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 j 3 minutes ago, abc2330 said: Let's try an exercise, using the SB winning years from early in Brady's career. One set of data represents how his QB rating was in relation to the other QBs in the league, and the other represents points allowed by the NE defense. Which do you think played a greater factor in the success of the team during these years? 2001- 6th 2003- 1st 2004- 3rd 2001- 22nd 2003- 22nd 2004- 15th The defense was always Belichick bread and butter and while they had a big hand in things Brady did as well. Brady in those three Super Bowl years had a total of 6 fourth quarter comebacks and 9 game winning drives. In 2004 Brady lead the offense to the 4th ranking in points and 7th in total offense so by then he was already coming into his own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson are incredible QBs. Brady's started to decline and is probably right now worse than those two. But he's had a stronger career by far. To do these comparisons you're gonna have to wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 1 minute ago, MIKE75 said: j The defense was always Belichick bread and butter and while they had a big hand in things Brady did as well. Brady in those three Super Bowl years had a total of 6 fourth quarter comebacks and 9 game winning drives. In 2004 Brady lead the offense to the 4th ranking in points and 7th in total offense so by then he was already coming into his own. People act as if 4th quarter comebacks are solely the work of the QB. Anyone remember the 4th quarter of the Seattle game? The Atlanta game? The Jacksonville game? NE's defense stepped up big when it matter most, as they have as long as Brady has been around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, abc2330 said: If a championship only required the QB with the 22nd best QB rating in the league, there would be a lot more champions. How about 5 championships and the 3rd best rating of all time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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