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The Patriots Dynasty Whose Most Responsible (Is Brady leading a revolt against Belichick?)


MIKE75

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Brady's already made the argument for GOAT, what happens now doesn't matter.  He's gonna be a first ballot HoF QB.  Football is a team sport, Brady's been the best team player for years.

 

He's in decline now and should have been traded, but that doesn't take away any of his accomplishments.

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A classic Mike novella post----it's comforting to know that in a completely unpredictable world there are a few things that are constants. When you see that Mike has started a thread, you automaticall

They should have kept Garoppolo and traded Brady at the end of the season.  And I'm sure that's exactly what Belichick would have done if he was allowed to.

Brady has played against the AFC East every year which usually is terrible.

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On 4/21/2018 at 9:16 PM, TitanedUpSince'70 said:

Been watching football since the mid 60's when the first Super Bowl was played, but no one has convinced me yet that Brady is the goat.  He is damn good in a system that is damn good, in an AFC East division that has been shit for waaay too long.  Put him in other crappy systems and I doubt seriously he's the same Brady we all know, but unfortunately we'll probably never get to see that happen. 

 

He's 5-3 in SB's and damn close to being 4-4 for a .500 record, if not for Butler saving the Pats that year with his INT.  Even Brady says he is a product of the system he plays in.  He just being humble you say?  Nah, he's being honest with himself! ;)  From a very short interview a year ago...

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-says-hes-not-greatest-quarterback-2017-5

 

However, he's not the greatest NFL quarterback of all time, according to one man: Brady himself.

 

In an interview with ESPN's Ian O'Connor published Monday, Brady deflected that title and said what many others have about his career — that he's a product of the Patriots' rock-solid system:

 

"I don't agree with that, and I'll tell you why. I know myself as a player. I'm really a product of what I've been around, who I was coached by, what I played against, in the era I played in. I really believe if a lot of people were in my shoes they could accomplish the same kinds of things. So I've been very fortunate. ... I don't ever want to be the weak link."

Shame that Marino doesn't have any rings he was really good. The first Super Bowls i ever watched were in '84-'85 the 49ers beat Dolphins and the next year the Bears killed the Patriots. You have about 2 decades on me and i was wondering how do you see Unitas? Out of all the pre 1970's QB's that started out in the 50's/60's i think he would be in the top 10 or top 20 all time he was pretty good and got hardware at a time when it was way harder to be an NFL QB.

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This is a "chicken or the egg" discussion. Truth is I think that Brady and Belichick have both greatly benefitted by each other. I don't think it diminishes what either one has done. Belichick is a defensive genius. His defense with the Parcells/SuperBowl Giants was one of the best in NFL history. He is a great game planner. There have been successful coaches come out of his coaching tree. He's maintained a competitive team despite constantly drafting in the bottom of the draft. 

 

I absolutely think Brady has been an integral part of New England's success. His perfect execution of NE's offense with robotic accuracy has been amazing. Without him Belichick would NOT have the record that NE has had for over a decade. He has to be in the convo about the GOAT. That said I still think it's a 1+1=3 situation with Belichick and Brady.   

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53 minutes ago, Titansurf32 said:

ABC just destroyed the entire Its-All-Brady bunch in this debate.  I am curious as to what people think Brady would have achieved if he was drafted by a different team or not at all?

I don't think you'd even know who Tom Brady is unless you followed Michigan if he was drafted by another team.

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On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 9:22 AM, MIKE75 said:

i was wondering how do you see Unitas?

I see him as a damn good QB too.  He was the first real QB I kept up with as a kid.  Him and Namath really.  Then became a lifelong Oilers fan in '70.  And even though I wasn't born when Slingin' Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham played lights out football in the '50's, I consider them as damn good QBs also.  Would have been great to have seen them in their heyday.  All of 'em - damn good!

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On 4/23/2018 at 8:08 PM, Titansurf32 said:

ABC just destroyed the entire Its-All-Brady bunch in this debate.  I am curious as to what people think Brady would have achieved if he was drafted by a different team or not at all?

A lot of fairly average guys get chances to play and eventually start like Case Keenum, sort of like old retread coaches. Brady would have had chances to play and he would have been outstanding. Remember this is a guy who walked up to the owner and said this is the best decision you've ever made. He knew he'd be great and his play has shown he is. 

 

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53 minutes ago, JNew said:

A lot of fairly average guys get chances to play and eventually start like Case Keenum, sort of like old retread coaches. Brady would have had chances to play and he would have been outstanding. Remember this is a guy who walked up to the owner and said this is the best decision you've ever made. He knew he'd be great and his play has shown he is. 

 

I mean that sounds nice and all but its pure conjecture and can't back up your stance that Brady is most responsible for the Patriots dynasty.  I would actually use Keenum and any other Rams/Fisher qb for that matter as an example of how a talented qb can have their careers wasted and/or made solely by the team, system and coaches they play for.  Matt Cassel went 11-5 with a pats team that most likely would have went deep in the playoffs had they been allowed in.

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6 minutes ago, Titansurf32 said:

I mean that sounds nice and all but its pure conjecture and can't back up your stance that Brady is most responsible for the Patriots dynasty.  I would actually use Keenum and any other Rams/Fisher qb for that matter as an example of how a talented qb can have their careers wasted and/or made solely by the team, system and coaches they play for.  Matt Cassel went 11-5 with a pats team that most likely would have went deep in the playoffs had they been allowed in.

Of course it is conjecture, anything other than what happened is pure speculation. And of course a dumb coach can ruin talent.

 

But good coaching doesn't make a guy great, and I don't need speculation to say Tom Brady is great. Look at him play. Look at his stats. Look at his resumé. Look at his longevity. It's an easy argument to debate he is the greatest and without question a top 5 all time QB. 

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On 4/22/2018 at 0:00 PM, OILERMAN said:

More importantly Brady throws receivers open

Brady puts so much stress on defenses. He's the reason these guys are open, he spreads defenses thin bc he makes them pay for every little mistake 

 

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On 4/21/2018 at 8:04 PM, abc2330 said:

I don't understand why people throw out the name of these great receivers, while not acknowledging that Gronk is the kind of stat-enhancing player that every single one of them is.

 

I think people get more caught up in the accomplishents of Brady rather than judging him by what he does on the field.  It's a matter of opinion, but after watching the last SB, I don't think an unbiased eye could have told you who was the GOAT and who was a failed backup QB.  Not by matter of performance, but by ability.

 

 Even when someone on the court has a better game than Lebron, I'm sure threat everyone knows who the generational player is..  But they both Foles and Brady looked like accurate pocket QBs with good protection and receivers.  If you watch Aaron Rodgers, he flies off the screen with his scrambling and playmaking ability, as well as his ability to make seemingly impossible throws and ball placement.  Wilson is the same in certain ways.  They are both 10x more athletic and have higher career QB ratings with much more flawed supporting casts and coaching.  Brady just seems to be throwing to open receivers, as good as he is.   I just think that a lot of QBs would have had similar success if they had been in NE.

 

I have to come back to this, because on checking this passer rating stat I discovered these are the only 2 QBs of all time who have higher passer ratings than Brady. And neither of them have had even close to his length of career yet. 

 

If they do and maintain their output they can call themselves the best, or they could certainly make the argument. But to make your point that other QBs would have the same success you take the 2 best statistical QBs of all time to make Brady look inferior. You are reaching, brother man.

 

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4 hours ago, JNew said:

Of course it is conjecture, anything other than what happened is pure speculation. And of course a dumb coach can ruin talent.

 

But good coaching doesn't make a guy great, and I don't need speculation to say Tom Brady is great. Look at him play. Look at his stats. Look at his resumé. Look at his longevity. It's an easy argument to debate he is the greatest and without question a top 5 all time QB. 

I am actually a big Brady fan and I believe he is arguably the best qb of all time.  But I also believe it was very fortuitous that he got his chance and developed into that special player under Belichick.  I'm not sure he gets that chance or becomes that player under anyone else and we will never know.  We do know that Belichick can win with the likes of pre-rennaissance testaverde, Cassel, Garapolo and Brisset etc. to name a few.

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2 hours ago, Titansurf32 said:

 We do know that Belichick can win with the likes of pre-rennaissance testaverde, Cassel, Garapolo and Brisset etc. to name a few.

Most of the QBs you name have a tiny sample size

 

Belicheck has a losing record without Brady, with a massive sample size 

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10 hours ago, JNew said:

 

 

10 hours ago, JNew said:
3 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

Most of the QBs you name have a tiny sample size

 

Belicheck has a losing record without Brady, with a massive sample size 

 

You mean back in the mid-90s with the Browns?  What a relevant sample size.  You'd think that someone could actually get better at their job or something.

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