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[AussieTitanFan08]

 

[AussieTitanFan08]

 

[Mythos27]

1 hour ago, Soxcat said:

The speed isn't maintained.  It is just a top number.  Strong fast RBs once they get up to speed might be able to run faster than anyone else for a short burst.  On Taylor's long pass reception he absolutely burned one of the best CBs in the league.  Add to the fact he had the best 3 cone time among all the WRs in his class and I'd say the kid has some speed and quicks.  

 

As for Henry I'd say he is pretty damn fast.  There were some guys with angles or a chance to run him down from behind....  DBs.... and he burned them much in the same way Eric Dickerson used to on long runs.    

Taylor does have elite foot quickness as evidenced by his 3 cone but I remain unconvinced that he also has elite speed. He did beat Bouye with straight up speed but as good as Bouye is, he's not exactly a burner himself since he ran a 4.55 40 at his combine which we all know converts to well over a 4.6 at the combine. When Taylor runs right by a guy like Ramsey or even Adoree, I'll change my mind.

[AussieTitanFan08]

one of the Bears beat writers is suggesting that they could have an interest in Avery Williamson in FA.

[SirLanceALot]

 

[SirLanceALot]

 

[SirLanceALot]

 

[Mythos27]

Just now, SuperMariota8 said:

 

He's gotta be totally cooked by now.

[SirLanceALot]

 

[Mythos27]

16 minutes ago, Soxcat said:

Is there a difference between being a "speedster" and having "elite" speed? 

Interesting that you mention Adoree Jackson.  He ran a 4.42.  So did Ramsey.  Is 4.42 "elite"?

I'd say Taylor is fast enough but no, not sure anyone said he was elite in the pure, straight as an arrow running 40 yards speed which isn't much of a factor in real life football. 

I wouldn't say that Adoree or Ramsey are "elite" in terms of pure speed but they are certainly way above average in that regard and Ramesy particularly has other outstanding attributes to pair with his speed. Each of those guys is fast enough that it would take someone with serious jets to just run by them. You can see this when Adoree gets matched on to Will Fuller. When your #1 asset as a CB is speed and the guy across from you is considerably faster, you're usually in for a long day. Guys Fuller, Tyreek Hill, Brandin Cooks, etc are true speedsters with elite speed; Taylor isn't in that class. Now that doesn't mean he can't turn out to be one hell of a receiver. Heyward-Bey had 4.2 speed and was a bust while Antonio Brown is a 4.5 guy and still the best in the game. I'm not saying Taylor sucks or is "too slow", just that he's not a burner which is a fact.

[tgo]

30 minutes ago, Soxcat said:

Is there a difference between being a "speedster" and having "elite" speed? 

Interesting that you mention Adoree Jackson.  He ran a 4.42.  So did Ramsey.  Is 4.42 "elite"?

I'd say Taylor is fast enough but no, not sure anyone said he was elite in the pure, straight as an arrow running 40 yards speed which isn't much of a factor in real life football. 

This has little bearing on play speed. 

 

The "fastest" guys in the league are usually garbage. Brice McCain ran like a 4.31 or better. See John Ross as well. 

[Mythos27]

Just now, tgo said:

This has little bearing on play speed. 

 

The "fastest" guys in the league are usually garbage. Brice McCain ran like a 4.31 or better. See John Ross as well. 

40 speed and playing speed correlate higher than any other measurement so it's a major stretch to say it has very little bearing. The players who failed, didn't fail because their speed "didn't translate" they failed because they lacked other attributes and speed is all they had. It'd be more accurate to say that one-trick ponies are usually garbage in the league. 

[tgo]

7 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

40 speed and playing speed correlate higher than any other measurement so it's a major stretch to say it has very little bearing. The players who failed, didn't fail because their speed "didn't translate" they failed because they lacked other attributes and speed is all they had. It'd be more accurate to say that one-trick ponies are usually garbage in the league. 

Ok, but wouldn't you say it's possible that many super fast guys didn't have to develop other attributes in college because their athletic superiority made it possible for them to play well despite other limitations due to being in a lesser league?

 

But ok, yeah, saying it "has little bearing" is technically inaccurate. 

 

I think the only useful thing measurements and stuff play at the combine is giving you a general idea about a player's athletic traits and providing a baseline for performance. It can help when a player is from a small school playing against inferior competition especially. Drills can show you a player's technical proficiency to a degree or the fluidity of their movements, things like that. 

 

But the tape shows you who the good football players are, not the combine. And a lot of people these days blur those lines and make too big of a deal out of the athletic testing. 

 

The biggest thing you can take away from the combine is how they interview and act. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by tgo

[Mythos27]

8 minutes ago, tgo said:

Ok, but wouldn't you say it's possible that many super fast guys didn't have to develop other attributes in college because their athletic superiority made it possible for them to play well despite other limitations due to being in a lesser league?

 

But ok, yeah, saying it "has little bearing" is technically inaccurate. 

I agree whole-heartedly with the first part of your post. A lot of guys use it as a crutch in college and the major reason it bites them in the ass in the pros is because they now have to contend with guys who are not only better technicians but also faster than the bums in college. Part of the reason you see guys like Revis decline is because as you age, speed starts to go, very quickly. Revis didn't forget how to play CB, he lost speed and quickness to a certain degree. I use 40 times essentially as a bench mark; I wouldn't draft a CB slower than 4.53 or a receiver slower than 4.6. I might miss out on the odd Josh Norman or Anquan Boldin but it's safer that way IMO. Personally, I think the mid-4.4 range is where you tend to find your best blend of speed/skill players whose speed will actually make a difference.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Mythos27

[tgo]

Just now, Mythos27 said:

I agree whole-heartedly with the first part of your post. A lot of guys use it as a crutch in college and the major reason it bites them in the ass in the pros is because they now have to contend with guys who are not only better technicians but also faster than the bums in college. Part of the reason you see guys like Revis decline is because as you age, speed starts to go, very quickly. Revis didn't forget how to play CB, he lost speed and quickness to a certain degree. I use 40 times essentially as a bench mark; I wouldn't draft a CB slower than 4.53 or a receiver slower than 4.6. I might miss out on the odd Josh Norman or Anquan Boldin but it's safer that way IMO. Personally, I think the mid-4.4 range is where you tend to find your best blend of speed/skill players whose speed will actually make a difference.

And Jarvis Landry!

 

But yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Have to agree to disagree. 

 

I say you go on the film.

 

But if you had a receiver that ran a 4.8, you'd know they were slow. Or a lineman that runs a 4.9, you know they're athletic and fast. Like we knew Antonio Andrews was really slow because he ran a 4.8 something, and knew he wouldn't make it too long in the league. 

 

But you have guys like Kendall Wright who is a good enough athlete to be really successful (just lacks the necessary intangibles) . Or guys like Landry and Boldin that all ran slow 40 times.