TitanDuckFan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 JFC. Let's annihilate HIPAA, the 2nd Amendment and the 1st Amendment and the 4th Amendment all in one fell swoop. What the fuck happened to my country? Can we at least call for some form of adjudication before we climb up peoples' asshole, just because they want to protect themselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Bink said: A lot of people feel like this and yet as a stance for the Republican party you'd be viewed extremely liberal. I'd say there is a lot of legislation we can probably agree on. 1) If we are really trying to stop these shootings, for example, make it illegal to purchase any kind of gun until you are 21, not 18. Give people a view years out of high school to become reasonable human beings and separate them from that environment. Make it so you can access guns if you are involved in the service or police training, but if you are just an average kid, you get guns through parental access at a range, not buying them. Would you be okay with this one? 2) Strengthen the background check system. We need to stop scapegoating mental health in general and track the kinds of crimes and mental health issues that make you violence. The guy that shot up a church had a previous domestic assault on his record the Air Force failed to register. We need heavy penalties on organizations that fail to report violent crimes. I'd also say it's fair that if you are found guilty of domestic abuse or child abuse at any point by a court of law you lose the privilege to have a gun. 3) Lift the ban on researching gun violence. That's bullshit and bush league in a civilized country with this many guns. I'm not going to get into this one beyond this, but I think the idea that most people who own guns are responsible and sane is pretty far from the truth. Mixed bag like everything else. 4) Address the weapon classification system. I don't think you should have to have a letter of recommendation or anything like that to get a handgun or a shotgun. It's not unreasonable that if we're going to allow people to purchase military grade weapons you have to go through an extra hoop to get them, especially the first time. It should be harder to purchase and modify these guns. I'm not going to advocate for a ban here (although personally I think a ban should be considered). 5) Incentivize responsible gun ownership. Have more investment in public schools. Hold gun communities accountable for their rhetoric. 6) Fight against the culture that created this mess. It's not because of the liberal media or because parenting has gone soft or because Jesus is out of schools. It is amazing that people actually believe that causes radicalism. Truthfully, now that this kind of shooting is in our natural zeitgeist, the door that has been opened cannot be closed. We need to address getting it out of our cultural ideology and address gun culture itself, toxic masculinity, and fear mongering. Not sure how we do that aside from education. Here's how I think we can take some steps against the media, in passing what I would call the "don't make them famous" law: a. Mandatory cool down period. No using the image of the shooter for 30 days. b. The shooter is not named for a set period time. Ban reporting the details of the shooter (let's just say for the sake of simplicity 30 days). c. Limit what the media can report for several days. Details related to safety only. Names of victims through local news. Stop making money of the stories of the victims, at least in the immediate aftermath. d. Limit the way it can be reported on. Ban the media from throwing up comparative graphics or comparing shootings for a set amount of time. I think if we can get these stories out of the media, stop fetishizing these killings, and control the narrative we can maybe start getting this out of the national mindset. We have to address this ideology head on and hold the media responsibility for how we view this in the immediate aftermath of a shooting. 6 1). I completely agree with this one. In fact, I would just say that's prudent. Lot's of people will disagree with me but Car Rental companies won't even rent a car to you until you are 25. This is a tool that can be used to take another life. As long as we're only saying you have to be 21 to purchase and not going beyond that, I think this is a prudent law and one Republicans should consider. 2) Background checks are good but right now the real problem is there just isn't that much to check. Mental health isn't tracked and lawmakers don't want to track because they say if they do then it will produce a negative stigma on getting help and people won't want to enter the system because they will be flagged and can't get a gun. Plus there is the HIPPA thing that TDF alluded to. It's a catch 22. I do agree that if you have any kind of violence in your background and severe mental health problems, you should probably pop up on the background check. This one needs work through in order to get more people on board. I'm sure there's some smart solutions out there but I think it's something that should be talked about for sure. 3) Yes. This is just dumb not to study. Information empowers us to make wise choices. I agree it's bush league. 4) I think the putting extra hoops to get an AR-15 or AK style weapon is probably reasonable depending on what they are. It's a clever compromise and a solution I would be on board discussing. I think you could win over a lot (definitely not all) of gun rights advocates with common sense compromises like this one. 5) Not sure what you're getting at here but sounds good. 6) I think you are on to something with the culture stuff. I honestly don't know enough about that stuff to have a fair opinion but I think this is the number one factor in what is causing this stuff. People in other countries don't do this stuff. Even when there are guns around. Clearly, there is something wrong and SOMETHING needs to change. Edited February 19, 2018 by Justafan Mythos27 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 "The HIPAA thing" is an ACLU hot button issue. There have been multiple proposals to include HIPAA restricted info in the FBI's NICS for years, and the ACLU threatens multiple lawsuits every time. Adjudication is required before the ACLU will back down. But Drs and mental healthcare professionals won't take it that far. Gabby Giffords would probably still be fine, and the Aurora shooter never would have legally acquired his gun(s) if the mental health pros had just been willing to do their jobs. They had enough on both of those guys to get a judge to release the diagnosis to the FBI, and refused to do it both times. Citing the "stigma." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said: "The HIPAA thing" is an ACLU hot button issue. There have been multiple proposals to include HIPAA restricted info in the FBI's NICS for years, and the ACLU threatens multiple lawsuits every time. Adjudication is required before the ACLU will back down. But Drs and mental healthcare professionals won't take it that far. Gabby Giffords would probably still be fine, and the Aurora shooter never would have legally acquired his gun(s) if the mental health pros had just been willing to do their jobs. They had enough on both of those guys to get a judge to release the diagnosis to the FBI, and refused to do it both times. Citing the "stigma." Just out of curiosity, what do you think should be done? If anything? Edited February 19, 2018 by Justafan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Justafan said: Just out of curiosity, what do you think should be done? If anything? I think the key is in background checks, which we already have the system in place for, and penalties for medicos, court clerks, LEOs and judges that fail the public trust by not using it. It makes no sense to have that system in place, and then have someone's personal feelings prevent it from working. Implement a standard of conduct and penalize anyone in the system that fails to utilize it. And make the penalties meaningful. Then Let them be sued in civil court when they screwup. There's already multiple laws on the books in a number of states that will get you denied for as little as a domestic violence charge, or a restraining order. No conviction necessary. Thinking back over the last 6 or so (or more) of these atrocities, nearly every one of them would have/could have been prevented if the people responsible for their portion of the system had just done their damned job(s). So, I say start holding them accountable. In this instance, we'll start with the Broward County Sheriff's Dept., and the FBI people who couldn't be bothered. Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Of course, everything is fine as it is. Fuck it. Sleep easy. We did the best we could. Starkiller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 50 minutes ago, Justafan said: Just out of curiosity, what do you think should be done? If anything? Oh, and take down the "Gun Free Zone" signs around schools. Allow any teacher that is willing to, and can qualify, concealed carry. Defensive shooting courses are not hard to find. Allow police agencies responsible to fast-track teacher applicants, as long as their training is completed. Then insist that a portion of every school budget, 2%? 3%? be allotted to additional armed security. I'm sure state and county and city police depts would welcome the chance to allow these people to train in their facilities along with their regular training classes. Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanDuckFan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, begooode said: Of course, everything is fine as it is. Fuck it. Sleep easy. We did the best we could. Oh really? Heaven forbid we hold people accountable when our kids' lives are at stake. You sure you want to go there? When did it become okay for people holding the public trust to shirk the responsibility for their job? Because that's what you're saying. Stop thinking that adding another layer of laws to a system that is already complex as it is, will help. We're talking about taking away the constitutional rights of tens of millions of law-abiding people, because begoode thinks public employees shouldn't have to do their jobs. BRILLIANT! Edited February 19, 2018 by TitanDuckFan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 39 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said: Oh really? Heaven forbid we hold people accountable when our kids' lives are at stake. You sure you want to go there? When did it become okay for people holding the public trust to shirk the responsibility for their job? Because that's what you're saying. Stop thinking that adding another layer of laws to a system that is already complex as it is, will help. We're talking about taking away the constitutional rights of tens of millions of law-abiding people, because begoode thinks public employees shouldn't have to do their jobs. BRILLIANT! Of course, everything is fine as it is. Fuck it. Sleep easy. We did the best we could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/us/sandy-hook-newtown-shooting-victims-profiles/index.html Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyitsmeallen Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, begooode said: https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/us/sandy-hook-newtown-shooting-victims-profiles/index.html If this didn’t change things the Florida shooting sure as hell won’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 22 hours ago, Bink said: Donald Trump is disgraceful. His latest tweet--he doesn't have one percent of what Obama had. He's subhuman trash. Don't ever talk about politizing a tragedy again. Don't forget to look at his twitter banner. The kids are tweeting back. What a trainwreck https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/18/politics/donald-trump-florida-shooting-twitter/index.html Starkiller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bink Posted February 19, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, begooode said: The kids are tweeting back. What a trainwreck https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/18/politics/donald-trump-florida-shooting-twitter/index.html I don't see how you can't be angry. Trump is trash. IsntLifeFunny, OILERMAN, begooode, and 2 others 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 hours ago, heyitsmeallen said: If this didn’t change things the Florida shooting sure as hell won’t. The tide has changed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: The tide has changed I agree. Public opinion is changing. I've certainly softened my stance. Even some of the proposals being offered by Republicans would have been a step too far just a few years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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