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Starkiller

SPOILER Wars: The Last Jedi

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Porgs were cute for a bit. Then they quickly turned annoying.

 

I'm good with Rey's parents being a couple of randos (assuming they don’t change course there in the next movie). It’s better than trying to wedge some known character into her family tree.

 

Snoke was a huge letdown. I wanted to know where the hell he came from and what was his story. Now? Not sure I even care. I thought, is it a survived Darth Plegeus, who Palpatine mentioned in the last prequel? Or a clone of Palpatine like they had in the decades old comics? Now he could be any evil schlub. And he went out like a bitch.

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reo   

The whole movie was about flipping expectations and turning the world on it's head while passing it off to a new generation.

 

Set up a scenario where you think this small band of heroes (Fin and the girl) will go on this crazy mission and save the day at the end ala Luke and Han.... flip it and they fail.

Set up a scenario where Poe is the hero and defies bad leadership... flip it and make him wrong.

Set up a scenario where it seems like the plucky gang of heroes will get aid from a roguish anti-hero ala Han... flip it and have the rogue betray them.

Set up a scenario where it seems like Kylo will turn on his master and back to the light ala Vader... flip it and make him take over the galaxy.

Set up a scenario where it seems like Luke will fight his old apprentice and die ala Obi Wan... flip it and make it a ruse.

Set up a scenario where Luke is gonna survive... flip it and have him die.

 

 

It just got really old after a while and in the end you don't really get to see Luke be a badass except a couple snippets. You don't get a chance for him to really teach Rey and bestow his knowledge and wisdom upon her.

 

Kill Snoke w/o any real set up. All the mystery of who he is or could be goes down the drain.

 

All 'n all, it was just kinda blah. You didn't get to see any of the things you really wanted to see and they just passed off all of the things that people have been talking about for the past year + w/o much fanfare.

Edited by reo

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1 minute ago, reo said:

I wouldn't say they portrayed Luke as a coward as much as broken... but I agree in that I didn't like what they did to Luke.

I didn’t like that he entertained killing Kylo in his sleep at all.  

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reo   
Just now, Mercalius said:

I didn’t like that he entertained killing Kylo in his sleep at all.  

I didn't overly mind that part since he knows what happened when Yoda, Mace and the rest of the Jedi Order failed to confront Anakin when he was turning to the dark side. I like the nuance in that moment being a misunderstanding and it leading to Ben embracing Snoke in fear.

 

But I don't like how Luke reacted to it afterwards.

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13 minutes ago, reo said:

I didn't overly mind that part since he knows what happened when Yoda, Mace and the rest of the Jedi Order failed to confront Anakin when he was turning to the dark side. I like the nuance in that moment being a misunderstanding and it leading to Ben embracing Snoke in fear.

 

But I don't like how Luke reacted to it afterwards.

I just don’t see it.  He risked everything to save his friends when they were in danger and risked everything to redeem his father (who to this point was way more evil than Kylo).  OT Luke Skywalker wouldn’t kill anyone, much less a blood relative, in their sleep.  It’s not his character.  He was the closest thing to lawful good of the Star Wars Universe, brave to a detriment, and the glue that held the first six movies together.  And I was fine with them keeping him (mostly) out of TFA, but I expected legitimate answers for his absence in this one.  I didn’t get them.  The Luke we grew up re-watching for thirty years and reading about in the EU simply wasn’t this guy.  And if he changed after Return of the Jedi so drastically, they didn’t do nearly a good enough job of explaining how.  

 

Edited by Mercalius

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reo   
Just now, Mercalius said:

I just don’t see it.  He risked everything to save his friends when they were in danger and risked everything to redeem his father (who to this point was way more evil than Kylo).  OT Luke Skywalker wouldn’t kill anyone, much less a blood relative, in their sleep.  It’s not his character.  He was the closest thing to lawful good of the Star Wars Universe, and the glue that held the first six movies together.  And I was fine with them keeping him (mostly) out of TFA, but I expected legitimate answers why I’m this one.  I didn’t get them.  The Luke we grew up re-watching for thirty years and reading about in the EU simply wasn’t this guy.  And if he change after Return of the Jedi so drastically, they didn’t do nearly a good enough job of explaining how.  

 

I agree. They almost completely ruined Luke in this movie. You can see now why Mark Hamell said he didn't agree w/ a lot of the choices they made for Luke.

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21 minutes ago, reo said:

I wouldn't say they portrayed Luke as a coward as much as broken... but I agree in that I didn't like what they did to Luke.

I was generally OK with Luke. He was forced to be a master because he was the only Jedi left, but he was not prepared to do it. He failed, Ben turned to the dark side, and it broke him.

 

And apparently, the whole Jedi way was a failed order anyway. Honestly, if you watch the prequels, they took the old Obi Wan mysticism of it and made all of them into emotionless lords of order. From that point of view, it really was a failed order. 

 

It was fitting that it took an appearance by Yoda to bring him back to his senses and get him back in the fight.

 

Not sure how the whole Force Projection across the universe works, but ok, why not. It was pretty awesome. I hope Luke comes back in episode IX as a force ghost like Obi Wan. It would be great if he literally just haunts Ben throughout the movie like Jacob Marley hounding Scrooge.

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reo   
1 minute ago, Starkiller said:

I was generally OK with Luke. He was forced to be a master because he was the only Jedi left, but he was not prepared to do it. He failed, Ben turned to the dark side, and it broke him.

 

And apparently, the whole Jedi way was a failed order anyway. Honestly, if you watch the prequels, they took the old Obi Wan mysticism of it and made all of them into emotionless lords of order. From that point of view, it really was a failed order. 

 

It was fitting that it took an appearance by Yoda to bring him back to his senses and get him back in the fight.

 

Not sure how the whole Force Projection across the universe works, but ok, why not. It was pretty awesome. I hope Luke comes back in episode IX as a force ghost like Obi Wan. It would be great if he literally just haunts Ben throughout the movie like Jacob Marley hounding Scrooge.

I'd have been ok w/ it if Luke was given the opportunity to take Yoda's advice and give that wisdom, even his failures, to Rey but instead they killed him off.

 

Maybe they can fix that to an extent if he's a force ghost in the next one.

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5 minutes ago, Mercalius said:

OT Luke Skywalker wouldn’t kill anyone, much less a blood relative, in their sleep.  It’s not his character.  He was the closest thing to lawful good of the Star Wars Universe, brave to a detriment, and the glue that held the first six movies together.  

 

You mean until he went after Vader in the throne room and cut his hand off? Luke could kill if he was pushed.

 

Luke saw Ben as a threat. The return of the dark side, and he briefly considered ending him before it was too late. Even if he hadn’t done it, Ben had already been heading to the dark side (though I’d like it explained exactly how). 

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Just now, Starkiller said:

You mean until he went after Vader in the throne room and cut his hand off? Luke could kill if he was pushed.

 

Luke saw Ben as a threat. The return of the dark side, and he briefly considered ending him before it was too late. Even if he hadn’t done it, Ben had already been heading to the dark side (though I’d like it explained exactly how). 

He was still a kid then, in a heated fight, (basically) going against two Sith, and only got angry after Vader directly threatened Leia.  Even still, it was during fair combat.  I think they should have chopped the sleeping murder bit from the script completely.  Killing him was bold enough, but leaving that (and a few other parts) in tarnished some of the character.  Again, just my opinion.  Granted, I’m biased.  My name is Luke so I had to put up with the jokes my whole life, so I grew an extra affinity towards him as a character.  

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Cyrus   
45 minutes ago, Mercalius said:

My biggest gripes were not only the “nothingness” of the Snoke/Rey backstories but also Super-Leia out of nowhere and portraying Luke as a coward.  

Did the lack of information about Palpatine bother you? Vader? Tarkin...? We knew nothing about Palpatine. Knew only that Vader served with Kenobi in the Clone Wars and was turned...and that's it. Snokes origin isn't that important because it's not about him. He was a stepping stone in the story for Ren to progress as a character. Ren tired of Snokes control over him...and he killed him. It was an incredible sequence and was more satisfying than Vader picking up Palpatine and walking him over to a ledge.

 

We can blame the hype machine and all the speculation about Snoke for any disappointment, but the move makes Ren the real antagonist which is really good.

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reo   
29 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

You mean until he went after Vader in the throne room and cut his hand off? Luke could kill if he was pushed.

 

Luke saw Ben as a threat. The return of the dark side, and he briefly considered ending him before it was too late. Even if he hadn’t done it, Ben had already been heading to the dark side (though I’d like it explained exactly how). 

 

21 minutes ago, Mercalius said:

He was still a kid then, in a heated fight, (basically) going against two Sith, and only got angry after Vader directly threatened Leia.  Even still, it was during fair combat.  I think they should have chopped the sleeping murder bit from the script completely.  Killing him was bold enough, but leaving that (and a few other parts) in tarnished some of the character.  Again, just my opinion.  Granted, I’m biased.  My name is Luke so I had to put up with the jokes my whole life, so I grew an extra affinity towards him as a character.  

Luke was definitely prone to anger and violence. It's how the Emperor tried to turn him.

 

But for the most part Luke kept that part of himself clamped down which is how he stayed on the side of light... it would make sense though that he'd have a moment where a thought like that might creep in and in the heat of feeling the dark side in Ben, I could see it happening for a brief moment.

 

I don't mind that happening... i just don't like that it had such a lasting affect on Luke and he never got over it.

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