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Trump and Israel


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16 minutes ago, patsplat said:

Any two state solution is a perpetuation of original apartheid, a one state solution focused on secular democracy and human rights is the only solution.

A 2 state solution, with 2 viable self-governing countries, is the only workable outcome. But both sides want the same territory (sound familiar?).

 

The current 1 state solution is the problem.

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I'd also like to add that Trump's understanding of any particular issue is very baseline & black and white.   "Jews vs. Arabs? JEWS are the good guys, of course!" "Regulations? BAD!

Agree. This is the thing about Trump. The guy has no core beliefs, strong convictions or ideology. For example, on one hand he supports Israel and makes the evangelicals happy. However, he doesn't men

Very possible I get stationed in Texas and have to move down there this summer.  YAY!   I actually love Texas but I just hate idiots.  Growing up in TN, it always amazed me how otherwise per

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2 hours ago, Starkiller said:

A 2 state solution, with 2 viable self-governing countries, is the only workable outcome. But both sides want the same territory (sound familiar?).

 

The current 1 state solution is the problem.

If both sides want the same territory, a one state solution with democracy and civil rights is the only workable outcome.

 

Otherwise there's an aggrieved loser.

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26 minutes ago, patsplat said:

If both sides want the same territory, a one state solution with democracy and civil rights is the only workable outcome.

 

Otherwise there's an aggrieved loser.

Israel will remain a Jewish state. They aren’t going to allow the Palestinians to change that. That’s why only a 2 state solution will be acceptable in the end. 

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Just now, Starkiller said:

Israel will remain a Jewish state. They aren’t going to allow the Palestinians to change that. That’s why only a 2 state solution will be acceptable in the end. 

Why should Israel remain a theocracy?  Why shouldn't Palestinians have an equal vote?  At what point will Palestinians ever accept the ghetto that is being called the Palestinian state?

 

The end being advocates here is racist and genocidal.

 

Put a different way - should America always be a Christian nation?  Should Muslims be evicted to make room for Christians?  Should their homes be seized by the state?  Should Muslims lose the right to vote?  Should Muslims be required to observe Christian religious policy?

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The answer here should be of course not, America has religious freedom and separation of Church and State.  That's what will work in the middle east.  The problem is really that no one actually cares about Jews or Palestinians.  It's only a policy issue to the degree that it increases or decreases America's global influence.

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21 hours ago, 'Nator said:

 

 

I'd also like to add that Trump's understanding of any particular issue is very baseline & black and white.

 

"Jews vs. Arabs? JEWS are the good guys, of course!"

"Regulations? BAD! Deregulations? Good!" 

 

Everything is like a goddamned after school action cartoon with clearly defined good and evil. Autobots vs. Decepticons. GI Joe vs. Cobra. He-Man vs. Skeletor. This is how he, and his followers understand the world. 

There is a lot of truth to this. It’s actually pretty frightening to be honest. 

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9 hours ago, patsplat said:

Why should Israel remain a theocracy?  Why shouldn't Palestinians have an equal vote?  At what point will Palestinians ever accept the ghetto that is being called the Palestinian state?

 

The end being advocates here is racist and genocidal.

 

Put a different way - should America always be a Christian nation?  Should Muslims be evicted to make room for Christians?  Should their homes be seized by the state?  Should Muslims lose the right to vote?  Should Muslims be required to observe Christian religious policy?

Israel will remain a Jewish state because they choose to. They don’t have to do anything we want them to do any more than Iran does or China does or Saudi Arabia does. 

 

That’s why the best future for the Palestinians is their own autonomous Palestinian state.

 

The problem is they won’t do it without Jerusalem and Israel won’t give them Jerusalem. So they will continue to fight. 

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9 hours ago, patsplat said:

The answer here should be of course not, America has religious freedom and separation of Church and State.  That's what will work in the middle east.  The problem is really that no one actually cares about Jews or Palestinians.  It's only a policy issue to the degree that it increases or decreases America's global influence.

It’s debatable whether we actually have separation of church and state here. We say we do, but look at the political debates today and tell me we aren’t run by the religious right party today because we are a majority Christian nation. Tell me Alabama isn’t about to vote for a pedophile because of religious beliefs (abortion). 

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23 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Israel will remain a Jewish state because they choose to. They don’t have to do anything we want them to do any more than Iran does or China does or Saudi Arabia does. 

 

That’s why the best future for the Palestinians is their own autonomous Palestinian state.

 

The problem is they won’t do it without Jerusalem and Israel won’t give them Jerusalem. So they will continue to fight. 

A Palestinian state with no army or border control is a ghetto, not a nation state.

 

Israel can do what it wants to, but there's no reasons for Americans to provide unquestioned support for a religious theocracy in the Middle East.

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25 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

It’s debatable whether we actually have separation of church and state here. We say we do, but look at the political debates today and tell me we aren’t run by the religious right party today because we are a majority Christian nation. Tell me Alabama isn’t about to vote for a pedophile because of religious beliefs (abortion). 

AL is voting for Moore out of racist tribalism, not religion.  And besides, the keyword there is "voting."  Or should all the Southerners have been sent back to England after they lost the Civil War?

 

Apply the same logic used for Israel to our own history and see how ridiculous it is.

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4 minutes ago, patsplat said:

A Palestinian state with no army or border control is a ghetto, not a nation state.

They can have an army and border control if they have their own nation instead of just an Israeli territory like today. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, patsplat said:

Israel can do what it wants to, but there's no reasons for Americans to provide unquestioned support for a religious theocracy in the Middle East.

And yet we will continue to do so. For largely religious reasons. 

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43 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

It’s debatable whether we actually have separation of church and state here. We say we do, but look at the political debates today and tell me we aren’t run by the religious right party today because we are a majority Christian nation. Tell me Alabama isn’t about to vote for a pedophile because of religious beliefs (abortion). 

A pedophile can be seen as wrong as abortion to Christians.   But correct me if i am wrong, but i have not heard anybody say he had intercourse with the girls.  I dont think him dating and fooling around with younger girls 40 years ago where it was legal (except for the 14 year old claim) is not as bad as murder.   And there certainly is no reason to believe he is a pedophile now or the past 30 some years.

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4 minutes ago, Little Earl said:

A pedophile can be seen as wrong as abortion to Christians.   But correct me if i am wrong, but i have not heard anybody say he had intercourse with the girls.  I dont think him dating and fooling around with younger girls 40 years ago where it was legal (except for the 14 year old claim) is not as bad as murder.   And there certainly is no reason to believe he is a pedophile now or the past 30 some years.

Only claims of molestation and sexual assault. I guess you are ok with that...

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