charleytolar Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 41 minutes ago, Soxcat said: Really the problem here is that there have been very valid and well thought out arguments to prove you are wrong including arguments that Conklin is all-pro and at 15 we might not get a viable OT. Yet you still make no such argument back except you are upset we lost a 2nd round pick and gave too much. Obviously your opinion is totally subjective where the arguments for Conklin have been more objective. The guy is a stud. He will be on the team for about a decade. He will help anchor an OL that will be very good for many years to come. Hypothetically, and only hypothetically, by some miracle we get Conklin at 15, or get Decker who ends up being very good as well, and we take real good player, better than guys we can pick later or sign with those picks. But I prefer to stick to the facts which prove this was a great move. I never said anything but that Conklin was a great player, but one year does not a career make. Most conventional wisdom dictates that any trade and especially trades that involve picks are judged down the road. Whose opinion is not "totally subjective?" One's basis for opinion can be pretty objective. For instance, you rest your case on Conklin's All-pro status this past year. The biggest part of my hesitancy is that it is hard to find another trade that was so pricey. That is an objective standard. The truth is that I've never said that getting Conklin wasn't a great move. The criticism is that we seem to have over-paid. The instant I heard the terms of the deal that was my thought. I hd no complaint about Conklin himself just the terms of the deal. If the deal wasn't painful, why all the fuss about wanting a 2nd Round pick? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charleytolar Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 55 minutes ago, Soxcat said: This proves you need to do more reading and less writing. Why would you say this? Trading a later pick this year for an earlier pick next year... year in and year out.. would be unbeatable. The problem of course is that no GM would be dumb enough to give that up every year, year in and year out..... but to do it once is understandable... from the PR standpoint. It makes no objective sense in player acquisition strategy unless you just want what you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nine Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 I've never had a problem with @charleytolar's position. He's stated his position in a reasonable manner and never suggested that JRob screwed up or blew it by trading up for Conkin. He simply thinks JRob paid a higher price than he should have. I have no problem with him thinking this; JRob definitely paid a high premium to secure Conklin...I would expect a few people to think he overpaid. What I disagree with is the idea that JRob screwed the pooch by trading up. Yes, he paid a very high price....because he felt Conklin was worth it based on his pre-draft assessment. He obviously had Conklin graded significantly higher than Decker....otherwise he could have kept the picks and taken whichever guy was available at #15. We now have the benefit of knowing that Decker turned out to be a pretty good player also...but hindsight is almost always 20/20. JRob made an aggressive move to get the best player possible based on the information that was available to him at the time, and acquired a Pro Bowl caliber talent player as a result. It's okay if someone doesn't agree with JRob's value assessment....that's fine. The most important thing is that his move resulted in a dramatic improvement in OL play and made the team better as a whole. And ultimately, that's what matters most. freakingeek, Mythos27, and charleytolar 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, charleytolar said: I never said anything but that Conklin was a great player, but one year does not a career make. Most conventional wisdom dictates that any trade and especially trades that involve picks are judged down the road. Whose opinion is not "totally subjective?" One's basis for opinion can be pretty objective. For instance, you rest your case on Conklin's All-pro status this past year. The biggest part of my hesitancy is that it is hard to find another trade that was so pricey. That is an objective standard. The truth is that I've never said that getting Conklin wasn't a great move. The criticism is that we seem to have over-paid. The instant I heard the terms of the deal that was my thought. I hd no complaint about Conklin himself just the terms of the deal. If the deal wasn't painful, why all the fuss about wanting a 2nd Round pick? There are tons of examples of teams giving up more than the chart shows to get a player. To move up, odds are you are going to overpay. That's just how it works. Edited April 27, 2017 by japan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charleytolar Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 29 minutes ago, Soxcat said: Oh, and teams do it all the time when they just have to have a guy. We traded a next year's second for the Pat's 3rd to take Cook one year. They gave up a 3rd the next year to swap 2nd round picks to get Hunter. Are you trying to make my point for me? By the thinking you are claiming, we should have traded next year's (devalued) 4th for the privilege of taking Jared Cook with a newly acquired and current 3rd Round selection. Instead it cost as a 2nd, right? On the Hunter deal, we acquired 2013's 2-34 in exchange for 2013's 2-40, 7-216 and 2014's 3-77. The inclusion of a 3rd Round pick was a pot sweetener not a direct exchange of a devalued pick as you try to claim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charleytolar Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, japan said: There are tons of examples of teams giving up more than the chart shows to get a player. To move up, odds are you are going to overpay. That's just how it works. Surely there are but they are usually for picks closer to 1-1 than 1-8 was and usually for players that play marquee positions not RTs-- although i get that protecting MM8 had become a priority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTn Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 Another wasted 15 minutes....... I just can't help myself ....... Damn I hate the off-season..... TitanDuckFan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charleytolar Posted April 27, 2017 Report Share Posted April 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Soxcat said: Hunter deal. The difference between a 40th and 34th pick is 60 points (the draft trade chart everyone uses). That is worth the same as a CURRENT YEAR 4th round pick. We gave up the next years 3rd. Get it? The next year's 3rd was worth about the same as this years 4th. The 7th round pick is worth only 5 fricking points. Almost no value. In the Cook deal the Titans traded to get a CURRENT YEAR 3rd and gave up a next years 2nd. Get it? A current year 3rd was worth about the same as a next year's 2nd. Hold on, Cowboy! If draft picks devalue with age, a current year 3rd should have been worth next year's 4th not a 2nd... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 On 4/26/2017 at 0:33 PM, BJShan said: He's still at it even though Thor agreed with him. That alone would make me question my entire side of the argument. Another leg humper getting riled up!!! LOL!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJShan Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 1 hour ago, thor said: Another leg humper getting riled up!!! LOL!!! Wow, you bumped a 4 day old thread to say that? Obviously I struck a nerve. wiscotitansfan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 13 minutes ago, BJShan said: Wow, you bumped a 4 day old thread to say that? Obviously I struck a nerve. No, actually I didn't know you existed---then, when I saw you "liked" some comment that made no sense...I looked at your profile and noticed you had made a comment about me...I figured I should at least acknowledge you---since you actually are a twit from the background that didn't have the balls to comment about me and not make me aware of your remark... Maybe now you'll come out of the closet and at least man up about commenting about someone or something... However, that would actually take standing on your own two feet...and in your case getting off your knees and getting that thing out of your mouth long enough to quite hiding behind bs comments...Suck on that one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJShan Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, thor said: No, actually I didn't know you existed---then, when I saw you "liked" some comment that made no sense...I looked at your profile and noticed you had made a comment about me...I figured I should at least acknowledge you---since you actually are a twit from the background that didn't have the balls to comment about me and not make me aware of your remark... Maybe now you'll come out of the closet and at least man up about commenting about someone or something... However, that would actually take standing on your own two feet...and in your case getting off your knees and getting that thing out of your mouth long enough to quite hiding behind bs comments...Suck on that one... No that's fine, I won't say anything else about you, I know how fragile your ego is now. I don't care if you know who I am, I've likely been around just as long, if not longer than you, I just don't feel the need to spew whatever inane thought comes to my mind like you do. Your opinion of me means nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Do I hear crickets chirping!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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