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Any Players You Feel Titans Need To Avoid And Hoping We Don't Draft?


MIKE75

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1 minute ago, patsplat said:

Find one single top 10 WR pick who won a Super Bowl.  It's not easy.

Yes, because clearly the failures of the Cards and Vikes to come home with a ring were solely and completely due to Fitz's and Moss's lack of....um...averageness.

I also love your point that hall of fame talent are only helpful if they are taken at certain specific points of the draft.

 

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Wut????

Listen, I get your point. You aren't a fan of taking WR's high. That's fine. You just went overboard with the Moss/Fitz example. I disagree though - a quality WR is as important as quality at any

Marlon Humphrey, John Ross, and Jabrill Peppers, are the only ones right now for me. Still early though. 

5 minutes ago, KnoxTitan said:

Yes, because clearly the failures of the Cards and Vikes to come home with a ring were solely and completely due to Fitz's and Moss's lack of....um...averageness.

I also love your point that hall of fame talent are only helpful if they are taken at certain specific points of the draft.

WRs aren't valuable in the first round, especially high in the first round, due to the opportunity cost of missing out on a a different player who can impact the game by themselves.

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1 minute ago, patsplat said:

WRs aren't valuable in the first round, especially high in the first round, due to the opportunity cost of missing out on a a different player who can impact the game by themselves.

Listen, I get your point. You aren't a fan of taking WR's high. That's fine. You just went overboard with the Moss/Fitz example.

I disagree though - a quality WR is as important as quality at any other position. Pretty much the only positions that are far and away more valuable than any other are QB and elite pass rusher.

I mean look at defensive back - the 2015 Broncos, one of the most dominating defenses in the recent past - started 2 undrafted free agents and a #20 and #38 pick in the draft. The Seahawks won the Superbowl with starting defensive backfield with an average draft position of 118.

 

Does that mean that we should avoid taking defensive backs in the first round?

 

But if a Hall of Famer like Moss is available, you take him. You take him at #1 if you have to. For shit's sake, the mofo scored 23 TD's one year. 23!

That may not have won them a super bowl, but skipping potentially elite players in favor of positional bias like that is how you miss the playoffs and not even come close to a super bowl. 

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I think Keyshawn got one.

Fitz has been to one but didn't win it.

Marvin Harrison wasn't a top WR pick but he was a first rounder iirc... but I think he was late.

Moss of course but he was a mid 1st round pick. 14? 16?

 

imo Top 5-10 WRs generally are guys who have skated by their whole life on flat out being more athletic than everyone else so transitioning into the NFL where you've gotta put the work in, they struggle. And by work, I don't mean gym time.. I'm talking film time and details.

Edited by reo
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Pretty sure Jerry Rice won a Super bowl...or two...or three. Irvin won three as well although he's not on that level, it doesn't hurt to have one or two really good WRs/

Edited by THE_TITAN
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7 hours ago, MIKE75 said:

For me i have two specific players i DON'T want and feel like we are literally messing up things by doing so......

First player is CB Marlon Humphrey. He had games where he did not play well not to mention the Bama D is so talented you really don't get a true measure of how good the player really is. I also think of Jets first round bust Dee Milliner CB Bama......no thanks

Second is WR Mike Williams been reading about his neck injury and also how he can't get seperation and thats the exact thing we are looking for in a WR.

CB Marlon Humphrey and WR Mike Williams i think we need to bypass these two at all costs.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/sports/wp/2017/01/04/2017-nfl-mock-draft-this-class-has-no-surefire-qb-but-3-may-go-in-first-12-picks/?client=safari

 

youll love this one

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13 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

Pretty sure Jerry Rice won a Super bowl...or two...or three. Irvin won three as well although he's not on that level, it doesn't hurt to have one or two really good WRs/

On the flipside, didn't the 49ers win the Super Bowl the year before they drafted Rice? They were already a great team with Walsh and Montana among others. 

I don't think anyone can argue that we wouldn't be better if we added a great WR. But, I think the argument is over whether adding a great WR would push us over the hump moreso than a great player at another position.

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Pretty dumb way of deciding what position should be drafted.  Pretty sure JJ Watt, Julius Peppers, Aaron Donald, Sheldon Richardson, Marcell Dareus, Ndamukong Suh or Fletcher Cox aren't SB winners.  Neither are Bruce Smith, Chris Doleman, John Randle, Lee Roy Selmon, Mark Gastineau, Cortez Kennedy or Jason Taylor.

One thing I am sure of, every Super Bowl winner ever has had a WR on the team.  That position should be filled with the best player possible just like all other positions.

 

Edited by Righteous
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I actually get @patsplat's point, just not to that extreme. I've said in the past I think elite WR are a little bit overrated when it comes to the context of winning. AJ Green, Julio Jones, Megatron, Andre Johnson (young version), etc are great but how many playoff games have their teams won? That's not to say I wouldn't consider a potential opportunity at a Julio Jones or Amari Cooper type prospect if presented with that scenario, but it's more of a luxury than a necessity. I definitely want quality WR. I just don't think you HAVE to have an elite WR like those guys. If we can find a Doug Baldwin, TY Hilton, Brandin Cooks, etc that's good enough for me.

We definitely need some type of playmaker in the passing game to build around. It would feel like a massive reach to take a WR at 5. At 18, I'd love to take OJ Howard. Could be a potential Graham, Kelce, etc. I'm starting to warm up to Corey Davis as an option if he's there at 18 and Howard is gone.

Edited by socaltitan
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32 minutes ago, THE_TITAN said:

Pretty sure Jerry Rice won a Super bowl...or two...or three. Irvin won three as well although he's not on that level, it doesn't hurt to have one or two really good WRs/

I definitely want quality WR, I just don't think you have to have Julio Jones. It'd be great to have, but it's not imperative to winning a SB. I think if we can find a good tier 2 WR (i.e Baldwin, Hilton, etc) that works for me.

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3 hours ago, patsplat said:

WRs aren't valuable in the first round, especially high in the first round, due to the opportunity cost of missing out on a a different player who can impact the game by themselves.

Elite WRs -- esp with speed -- do impact games and game plans all by themselves.  The very threat of them makes safeties play much deeper and the entire secondary is aware of getting on their horse or get left in the dust.  Look up Matt Bowen talking about Moss -- he threatened the entire back seven as soon as he stepped on the field.

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1 minute ago, begooode said:

Elite WRs -- esp with speed -- do impact games and game plans all by themselves.  The very threat of them makes safeties play much deeper and the entire secondary is aware of getting on their horse or get left in the dust.  Look up Matt Bowen talking about Moss -- he threatened the entire back seven as soon as he stepped on the field.

Antonio Brown yesterday

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Players I think we need to avoid... Funny that virtually every mock has us taking a player I don't want with the 5th pick: Marlon Humphrey and Mike Williams.

I'm higher on Humphrey than it seems a lot around here are - he's physical, he's got top-notch speed, he has size... I just don't think he's worth the 5th overall pick. Mike Williams is the same. He's got all the tools, but I just don't think he's a Julio Jones, AJ Green caliber WR. He's not worth the 5th pick given who else will be available at that time.

I just don't want (a) any offensive players, or (b) any OLBs or CBs, with our #5 overall pick.

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The more I watch Corey Davis the more I think he might be the best WR in the draft, and could be worth the pick at #5. Senior Bowl week and the Combine will be BIG for my assessment of him because it will show if he can keep up that level of play against quality opposition. He had a real nice game vs Wisconsin already though.

Avoid Mike Williams, watched a number of his games now and not comfortable with him at all. 

Edited by THE_TITAN
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