Republicans are starting the process to repeal Obamacare, damage to follow

[Little Earl]

[Rogue]

1 hour ago, Little Earl said:

Lol at your dribble.  Ronald Reagan brought prosperity after a worse economy under Carter.  At least you recognize the greatness of Reagan.

I have to assume you was alive in 2008, so you must've been in a coma.  

['Nator]

3 hours ago, Little Earl said:

Lol at your dribble.  Ronald Reagan brought prosperity after a worse economy under Carter.  At least you recognize the greatness of Reagan.

It wasn't close to the economy Bush left us with and that's empirical fact. 

 

Also, wasn't there another recession in '88?

[TitanDuckFan]

1 hour ago, 'Nator said:

It wasn't close to the economy Bush left us with and that's empirical fact. 

 

Also, wasn't there another recession in '88?

The economy under Carter was worse.  At points during the Carter admin, unemployment, Inflation rates and interest rates were in double digits. 

Borrowing money meant paying over 18% interest in the late '70s.  Prime was around 18.5%.

IIRC the unemployment rate hit 11.8%.

Inflation was just down from around 10% when the 1980 election was held.

Things were bad for everybody, top to bottom.

 

Post Reagan, there were recessions in 91-92, 00-02, and the '08 crash.

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by TitanDuckFan

['Nator]

10 hours ago, TitanDuckFan said:

The economy under Carter was worse.  At points during the Carter admin, unemployment, Inflation rates and interest rates were in double digits. 

Borrowing money meant paying over 18% interest in the late '70s.  Prime was around 18.5%.

IIRC the unemployment rate hit 11.8%.

Inflation was just down from around 10% when the 1980 election was held.

Things were bad for everybody, top to bottom.

 

Post Reagan, there were recessions in 91-92, 00-02, and the '08 crash.

 

No. no it wasn't worse. That's why they frequently refer to it as "the worst economy since the Great Depression" not "The worst economy since the 1980's recession". 

Worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? By a long shot.http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot_20100127/

Edited January 9, 2017 by 'Nator

[Downtown]

9 hours ago, TitanDuckFan said:

The economy under Carter was worse.  At points during the Carter admin, unemployment, Inflation rates and interest rates were in double digits. 

Borrowing money meant paying over 18% interest in the late '70s.  Prime was around 18.5%.

IIRC the unemployment rate hit 11.8%.

Inflation was just down from around 10% when the 1980 election was held.

Things were bad for everybody, top to bottom.

 

Post Reagan, there were recessions in 91-92, 00-02, and the '08 crash.

 

This is completely ignoring what was actually happening with the economy pre-Carter and the solutions that the Fed put forth to end the out-of-control-inflation in the U.S.

We intentionally took a two year poison of abnormally raised interest rates to create a hyper economic boom when those rates were lowered. It's a total myth that Reagan created that boom. It was always within the poison plan put forth by the Fed. Reagan even started off by screwing it up with too drastic of cuts and no consolidation of spending. They had to roll-back the plan because the economy was failing at an even higher rate with national debt growing. 

Its revisionist history to even claim it was Carter's economy vs. Reagan's economy because the whole cycle too over 18 years to play out!! 

Sheesh. Read a book. Analyze what was actually happening.  

 

 

 

 

 

[pat]

On 1/7/2017 at 3:39 PM, TitanDuckFan said:

Yeah, but we survived his presidency anyway.

His "Reign of Error" will be over on the 20th of this month.

We'll survive the next one too.

Dismissing Obama's effective management of the country shows a tremendous degree of entitlement.  The Bush presidency reminded Americans that actually, America could make mistakes in foreign policy.  The Trump presidency will teach Americans the same lesson with domestic policy.

At which point the squandering of our WWII and Cold War victories will be complete.

[Number9]

Trump says he will repeal and replace Obamacare simultaneously.  Says he is going to get dems off the hook.

Will new plan be called Trumpcare?  Or since they had tried for over a century to get uni healthcare and Obama got it done, will it still be Obamacare?

[Downtown]

2 hours ago, JakePA_Titan said:

You have to love the assumption driven arguements.

People can think and feel what they want, but to hope the country fails or gets worse under Trump just so people can say "I told you so" is downright disgusting and depressing.

This isn't "I hope Winston sucks because we ended up with Mariota". This is far greater and more meaningful than something that provides us a little excitement in life. 

And it sounds like some are hoping for a failed presidency and worse economic state under Trump, again, just so they can say "I told you so". And if that's the case, disgusting and depressing might be and understatement. 

I surely didn't want Hillary as President, but had she won, I most certainly wouldn't be hoping for failure.

I agree with your sentiment. I only wish the GOP and even yourself along with certain folks on this board had practiced what you preach with Obama. 

[Little Earl]

 5 Big Myths About ObamaCare's Repeal — Busted

will add 20 million to uninsured rolls. This is the most pervasive myth of all, repeated ad nauseam in every news story about the law. There is no truth to it. The figure comes from the Obama administration itself, based on manipulated survey data. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services — which runs ObamaCare — says the number of uninsured declined by 15 million between 2013 and 2015 (the last year for which they have data). The Census Bureau says it dropped by less than 13 million. The Heritage Foundation looked at actual enrollment data and found that just over 14 million gained coverage by the end of 2015. Not all of this decline is because of ObamaCare, either, since millions of people got jobs over those years, many of whom gained coverage as well.

In any case, Republicans plan a transition away from ObamaCare to reforms that will make insurance more competitive and more affordable, along with rules that will encourage young people to buy and maintain coverage. The 20 million claim is pure poppycock.

• It will increase the deficit. ObamaCare never did cut the deficit as promised, thanks to unilateral changes made to ObamaCare by the administration that lowered revenues and increased costs. Since then, skyrocketing premiums and higher than expected costs for Medicaid are driving ObamaCare costs higher. As we pointed out in this space recently, in the next decade ObamaCare will, if left in place, add significantly to red ink.

• It will increase health costs. Obama loves to claim that ObamaCare led to a slowdown in health costs. Not true. The rate of increase in national spending on health care had been on a steady decline well before ObamaCare became law. ObamaCare reversed that trend once it went into full effect. The rate of increase in premiums for employer-provided insurance had also slowed before ObamaCare took effect. The shift in the employer market toward Health Savings Account plans — which Democrats hate — is largely responsible for that.

• Without ObamaCare, people with pre-existing conditions won't get insurance. A Kaiser Family Foundation report says that 25% of U.S. adults could be uninsurable if ObamaCare gets repealed because of pre-existing conditions. But that number is wildly inflated, since the vast majority of people get coverage through group plans or government-run programs that don't deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Plus, every Republican alternative to ObamaCare includes some protections for those with serious health problems.

• The public doesn't want ObamaCare repealed. Whatever public opinion polls say — and keep in mind that these surveys are conducted by the same pollsters who failed to predict a Trump win —  the fact is that voters have effectively voted to repeal the law three times. The first was when the GOP took control of the House in 2010, just months after Obama signed ObamaCare into law, despite public opposition. The second was when voters handed control of the Senate to Republicans in 2014 after ObamaCare's disastrous launch and Obama's "keep your plan" lie was exposed. The third was when voters elected Donald Trump in the midst of skyrocketing premiums and skimpier health plans.

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/busting-5-big-myths-about-obamacare-repeal/

[Downtown]

8 minutes ago, Little Earl said:

 5 Big Myths About ObamaCare's Repeal — Busted

will add 20 million to uninsured rolls. This is the most pervasive myth of all, repeated ad nauseam in every news story about the law. There is no truth to it. The figure comes from the Obama administration itself, based on manipulated survey data. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services — which runs ObamaCare — says the number of uninsured declined by 15 million between 2013 and 2015 (the last year for which they have data). The Census Bureau says it dropped by less than 13 million. The Heritage Foundation looked at actual enrollment data and found that just over 14 million gained coverage by the end of 2015. Not all of this decline is because of ObamaCare, either, since millions of people got jobs over those years, many of whom gained coverage as well.

In any case, Republicans plan a transition away from ObamaCare to reforms that will make insurance more competitive and more affordable, along with rules that will encourage young people to buy and maintain coverage. The 20 million claim is pure poppycock.

• It will increase the deficit. ObamaCare never did cut the deficit as promised, thanks to unilateral changes made to ObamaCare by the administration that lowered revenues and increased costs. Since then, skyrocketing premiums and higher than expected costs for Medicaid are driving ObamaCare costs higher. As we pointed out in this space recently, in the next decade ObamaCare will, if left in place, add significantly to red ink.

• It will increase health costs. Obama loves to claim that ObamaCare led to a slowdown in health costs. Not true. The rate of increase in national spending on health care had been on a steady decline well before ObamaCare became law. ObamaCare reversed that trend once it went into full effect. The rate of increase in premiums for employer-provided insurance had also slowed before ObamaCare took effect. The shift in the employer market toward Health Savings Account plans — which Democrats hate — is largely responsible for that.

• Without ObamaCare, people with pre-existing conditions won't get insurance. A Kaiser Family Foundation report says that 25% of U.S. adults could be uninsurable if ObamaCare gets repealed because of pre-existing conditions. But that number is wildly inflated, since the vast majority of people get coverage through group plans or government-run programs that don't deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Plus, every Republican alternative to ObamaCare includes some protections for those with serious health problems.

• The public doesn't want ObamaCare repealed. Whatever public opinion polls say — and keep in mind that these surveys are conducted by the same pollsters who failed to predict a Trump win —  the fact is that voters have effectively voted to repeal the law three times. The first was when the GOP took control of the House in 2010, just months after Obama signed ObamaCare into law, despite public opposition. The second was when voters handed control of the Senate to Republicans in 2014 after ObamaCare's disastrous launch and Obama's "keep your plan" lie was exposed. The third was when voters elected Donald Trump in the midst of skyrocketing premiums and skimpier health plans.

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/busting-5-big-myths-about-obamacare-repeal/

These words are rather meaningless. If I posted my thoughts on a website without any substantial backing information, would you also take it as fact? 

[Justafan]

1 hour ago, Downtown said:

These words are rather meaningless. If I posted my thoughts on a website without any substantial backing information, would you also take it as fact? 

Only if they align with his preconceived notions.  

[luvyablue256]

On 1/6/2017 at 9:02 AM, Little Earl said:

They need to find ways to reduce costs.  Some ideas are tort reform and allowing intrastate insurance competition.    I'm sure there are more. 

Competition may work, but it's been proven that tort reform will only result in minuscule cost reduction.

[Titans279]

The "we just need more competition" line is something that looks great at first glance  

You can actually sell across state lines right now, you just have to comply with the insurance regulations in the state you want to sell in. See article and quote below!

Some GOP plans basically nullify state insurance regulations. So you'll just have insurance companies all set up in the least regulated states and then sell insurance that is the lowest common denominator. 

Quote

In 2012, Ms. Corlette and co-authors completed a study of a number of statesthat passed laws to allow out-of-state insurance sales. Not a single out-of-state insurer had taken them up on the offer. As Ms. Corlette’s paper highlighted, there is no federal impediment to across-state-lines arrangements. The main difficulty is that most states want to regulate local products themselves. The Affordable Care Act actually has a few provisions to encourage more regional and national sales of insurance, but they have not proved popular.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/upshot/the-problem-with-gop-plans-to-sell-health-insurance-across-state-lines.html

[Titans279]

Is this what they call getting Trumped?