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Damian Williams

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#41
Cyrus

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I think we need to establish that SI.com or NFL.com aren't necessarily the baseline for scouting reports for the league. National Football Post, ProFootballWeekly and NFLDraftScout.com (CBSSports) are far more reputable overall. Besides, I can only speak to as what I see when I watch players play. There's a lot of factors that I look at when I watch receivers and it's my personal opinion that Damian Williams would be a better slot receiver (where he could be great), Washington needs to go and that the Titans should add Jeff Fuller in the second based on his skillset, physical ability and this offensive system.

I think that Green Bay has proven that adding weapons with particular physical makeups and skill sets that fit your team is the way to build an offense. I don't think it's all Rodgers ability although he makes the most of his receivers. Rodgers can't make a receiver catch a back shoulder fade no matter how good the ball placement is and unless he has receivers that can make those catches, Rodgers can't make those throws. What the Packers have done is realize receiver and quarterback skill set and put them in a scheme where they can be successful.

#42
reo

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I think we need to establish that SI.com or NFL.com aren't necessarily the baseline for scouting reports for the league. National Football Post, ProFootballWeekly and NFLDraftScout.com (CBSSports) are far more reputable overall.

lol can't attack the comments so attack the source? nfl.com is actually generally mayock who i really like

I don't think it's all Rodgers ability


now you're going to extremes. I didn't say it was all Rodgers.

I said it was a combination of them getting WRs that run good routes and hit their spots and are where they're suppose to be/where Rodgers expects them to be.

These guys weren't great physical athletes coming out. They were good. They were quick and good route runners and hard workers who catch well. And it's this ability combined w/ Rodgers ability that all of a sudden make them seem so explosive.

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#43
Cyrus

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I'm not trying to attack you Reo and I'm not trying to undermine you. I'm trying to communicate my thoughts in a global manner and it's not my goal to be disagreeable or argumentative.

Here's my point: It's more than just being in the right spot although that's a heavy component in any timing offense. I firmly believe, and it's my opinion, that there's particularly skill sets for certain positions and generally speaking a particular body type that correlates best to a position.

If you're going to be an outside downfield threat you need to have tracking ability to catch over your shoulder or adjust to throws. If you're not tall you better be explosive/fast (Think Steve Smith, Mike Wallace etc.). If you're not all that fast, you better have size (Kenny Britt, Colston, Terell Owens etc.) Right now Damian Williams is in the not so fast, not so tall category and while he has the skill set to be an outside receivers he doesn't have the ideal make up to be a very consistent, full time outside receiver who can be a great talent at that spot.

And of course, route running relates to all of that and it's a fundamental skill for all receivers. It helps compensate for a number of short comings in receiver but ultimately if you want to play split end you simply need to have certain abilities to be a consistent vertical threat.

#44
reo

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I'm not trying to attack you Reo and I'm not trying to undermine you. I'm trying to communicate my thoughts in a global manner and it's not my goal to be disagreeable or argumentative.


yeah, i wasn't saying you were. I was saying I brought up sources that refuted what you were saying about Nelson and the others and you then attacked that source instead of backing up what you were saying w/ other sources.

Here's my point: It's more than just being in the right spot although that's a heavy component in any timing offense. I firmly believe, and it's my opinion, that there's particularly skill sets for certain positions and generally speaking a particular body type that correlates best to a position.

If you're going to be an outside downfield threat you need to have tracking ability to catch over your shoulder or adjust to throws. If you're not tall you better be explosive/fast (Think Steve Smith, Mike Wallace etc.). If you're not all that fast, you better have size (Kenny Britt, Colston, Terell Owens etc.) Right now Damian Williams is in the not so fast, not so tall category and while he has the skill set to be an outside receivers he doesn't have the ideal make up to be a very consistent, full time outside receiver who can be a great talent at that spot.

And of course, route running relates to all of that and it's a fundamental skill for all receivers. It helps compensate for a number of short comings in receiver but ultimately if you want to play split end you simply need to have certain abilities to be a consistent vertical threat.


And my point is that when the route running is there and they get the right routes called consistently against the correct coverages and the QBs read it right and find the right guys and everything is going smoothly... the WRs look so much more explosive and athletic when they're really just the same athletes playing the position better. Sure you'll have some Kenny Britts or TOs that come out and physically dominate or you'll have the Mike Wallaces that come out and blow past people but generally... that's not what's needed. You need guys who can get where they're suppose to be when they're suppose to be there. And that's why imo DW is playing better and if he continues to get better at it... ppl will all of a sudden see him as an explosive WR when really his physical ability didn't change, just his perfection of his craft.

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#45
JLocker10

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I'm not trying to attack you Reo and I'm not trying to undermine you. I'm trying to communicate my thoughts in a global manner and it's not my goal to be disagreeable or argumentative.

Here's my point: It's more than just being in the right spot although that's a heavy component in any timing offense. I firmly believe, and it's my opinion, that there's particularly skill sets for certain positions and generally speaking a particular body type that correlates best to a position.

If you're going to be an outside downfield threat you need to have tracking ability to catch over your shoulder or adjust to throws. If you're not tall you better be explosive/fast (Think Steve Smith, Mike Wallace etc.). If you're not all that fast, you better have size (Kenny Britt, Colston, Terell Owens etc.) Right now Damian Williams is in the not so fast, not so tall category and while he has the skill set to be an outside receivers he doesn't have the ideal make up to be a very consistent, full time outside receiver who can be a great talent at that spot.

And of course, route running relates to all of that and it's a fundamental skill for all receivers. It helps compensate for a number of short comings in receiver but ultimately if you want to play split end you simply need to have certain abilities to be a consistent vertical threat.


Do you think Kendall Wright can play outside?

Doesn't have the ideal size, but he is a burner

A guy I'd look at in a possible trade is Johnny Knox of CHI

He's been demoted to #4 WR...Roy Williams and Hester start with Bennett in the slot

He's got terrific speed


I think Kaepernick is fools gold.


#46
Cyrus

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I definitely think so and I believe Kendall Wright is a sure-fire 2nd rounder who is in the Mike Wallace type of mold. He's got elite tracking ability and great speed/quickness on vertical routes. It's amazing watching him and Griffin III play together and some of the passes they can pull off. Rarely do you see 40+ yd passes dropped in the basket without the receiver throttling down but they've managed to do it in college.

As for Knox I think he's pretty talented on some of the vertical routes. It's hard to say from a highlight video about his consistency though. He looks as if he has the tracking ability to pull in some tough catches over his shoulder though and he's definitely got some wheels. He seemed like a pretty raw route runner (doesn't bracket, doesn't create space, drifts - balance) and if he continues to develop his skill set he'll probably be able to generate more space for himself and use his speed/tracking to a higher degree. I don't think the Bears would let him go though.

Reo, I'm not arguing whether some guys can be starters at the outside position without the ideal skillset/HWS. Their route running can allow them to work there but what's the point if they're never a featured player? It's in my opinion that if Damian Williams were a slot receiver he'd be a solid red-chip guy. He's smooth, agile and has great hands/tracking ability to run every route and attack seams in coverage from the slot position.

However, at the outside position (if we're considering the furthest split) he can only run a few routes (basically fade, post, comeback, in) because of the limited space on the field and his alignment. He can't play to his strengths as a smooth, agile possession receiver who can make things happen after the catch. (last games TD). He can't really excel outside and in my opinion could never be a red-chip type player outside even if he could be productive.

#47
reo

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Reo, I'm not arguing whether some guys can be starters at the outside position without the ideal skillset/HWS. Their route running can allow them to work there but what's the point if they're never a featured player? It's in my opinion that if Damian Williams were a slot receiver he'd be a solid red-chip guy. He's smooth, agile and has great hands/tracking ability to run every route and attack seams in coverage from the slot position.

However, at the outside position (if we're considering the furthest split) he can only run a few routes (basically fade, post, comeback, in) because of the limited space on the field and his alignment. He can't play to his strengths as a smooth, agile possession receiver who can make things happen after the catch. (last games TD). He can't really excel outside and in my opinion could never be a red-chip type player outside even if he could be productive.


There are a couple different discussions here that we need to define which one we're talking about b/c it's very easy to just fall into point/counter point while forgetting the discussion as a whole.

On one hand we're discussing how a player can be seen as not being very explosive or lacking a burst when he's not doing well but then once they're playing well and hitting the right routes and the QB is reading the defense accurately, they're all of a sudden seen as being more explosive or having a great burst or whatever when it's really the exact same player/ability. It's so subjective that it's funny.

And then on the other hand we're discussing whether or not a player needs that outstanding athletic ability to succeed. I'd say it helps but primarily you want a WR that hits his spots and be in the right spots at the right time and after your WR has a certain amount of baseline ability, any more is a bonus. And I'd say most if not all WRs in this league have that baseline ability. They just need to perfect their craft and their knowledge of the offense enough to show it.

In the case of DW, I think he has plenty of ability in terms of speed, burst and quickness to be a very good WR and if he continues to improve in the offense and be where Hass wants/expects him to be then people we'll start to see him as being more explosive that they see him now b/c it's so subjective.

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#48
Stan

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There's a article out about Jordy Nelson saying he owes his success to being white, saying how corners don't respect him becasue he's white and thats why he's sneaking up on people.

#49
JLocker10

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I definitely think so and I believe Kendall Wright is a sure-fire 2nd rounder who is in the Mike Wallace type of mold. He's got elite tracking ability and great speed/quickness on vertical routes. It's amazing watching him and Griffin III play together and some of the passes they can pull off. Rarely do you see 40+ yd passes dropped in the basket without the receiver throttling down but they've managed to do it in college.

As for Knox I think he's pretty talented on some of the vertical routes. It's hard to say from a highlight video about his consistency though. He looks as if he has the tracking ability to pull in some tough catches over his shoulder though and he's definitely got some wheels. He seemed like a pretty raw route runner (doesn't bracket, doesn't create space, drifts - balance) and if he continues to develop his skill set he'll probably be able to generate more space for himself and use his speed/tracking to a higher degree. I don't think the Bears would let him go though.

Reo, I'm not arguing whether some guys can be starters at the outside position without the ideal skillset/HWS. Their route running can allow them to work there but what's the point if they're never a featured player? It's in my opinion that if Damian Williams were a slot receiver he'd be a solid red-chip guy. He's smooth, agile and has great hands/tracking ability to run every route and attack seams in coverage from the slot position.

However, at the outside position (if we're considering the furthest split) he can only run a few routes (basically fade, post, comeback, in) because of the limited space on the field and his alignment. He can't play to his strengths as a smooth, agile possession receiver who can make things happen after the catch. (last games TD). He can't really excel outside and in my opinion could never be a red-chip type player outside even if he could be productive.


Knox was demoted from starter though and is a FA next year

I think he could be had

JMO, but I'm really starting to think we need a speed guy on the outside which is why I'm starting to lean more towards Wright than going for a Fuller..or trying to trade for a Knox or going after Meachem

I'd sacrifice some size for speed

I think Kaepernick is fools gold.


#50
abenjami

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There's a article out about Jordy Nelson saying he owes his success to being white, saying how corners don't respect him becasue he's white and thats why he's sneaking up on people.


Was the article in Bosnia Football Weekly?

#51
CMJ

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There's a article out about Jordy Nelson saying he owes his success to being white, saying how corners don't respect him becasue he's white and thats why he's sneaking up on people.

?????????

 

                                             LosAngeleskings_146192382_620x350.jpg

                                                                             

 

     


#52
VanCityTitan

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Was the article in Bosnia Football Weekly?

?????????



http://www.zimbio.com/Jordy+Nelson/articles/-chtOeA0cvW/Jordy+Nelson+Says+Underestimated+White

#53
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Well since "white chocolate" is already taken, maybe his nickname can be "vanilla black"

#54
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Everyone is going by the premise that D. Williams can't play outside let alone be a #1 type of guy. I disagree. Like I said earlier assumptions are made on a small sampling of games and his draft position. There are guys in this league who aren't any faster and were drafted outside of the 1st round who are darn good WRs. Was anyone touting Mason as a #1 WR in his 2nd season? Mason might be in the HOF some day.

Then as usual we have the typical list of half a dozen college players who people think most certainly could step in and play better than Williams. In reality that is simply not true. Many of those "studs" will be duds. The talk about Meachum is almost laughable. Williams is a better WR right now. Meachum plays on a team that leads or is near the top of the league in passing yards every single year and has one of the best QBs and Meachum has done very little there. In fact I'd go as far as saying the main reason he gets an occasional big play is due to the fact the Saints have other guys at WR and TE the defense is concerned with.

The comment was made that Williams TD catch was from the slot like that matters. This just proves how inattentive some fans are about what goes on in a game. Ringer lined up wide, a RB and left and empty backfield. I guess using that logic Ringer is now a WR who lines up wide? Williams also had a bomb thrown to him where he lined up on the outside and ran by the CB. Williams has enough speed, great hands and body control and if he can continue to refine his route running ability he can be very effective. He has also shown he can run after the catch. Right now he is our #1 WR. Washington is the guy who should move to the slot when Brit comes back.
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Pick Analysis: "Whether it's a medical issue or the diluted sample in Indianapolis, there's a reason why this guy with second-round talent is going in the sixth round. That's immaterial now. Jake Locker has been unsuccessful there. (New head coach) Ken Whisenhunt is inheriting him. He will have less patience with Locker if he struggles. Locker is on a one-year contract that might not be all 16 games. Mettenberger can make all the throws. He has a world of talent and has been in a pro system under Cam Cameron at LSU." -- Charley Casserly

 


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#55
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It's will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think Munchak/company are taking a look at players like Williams to see where/if they are going to fit going forward. I particularly liked some of Cyrus' comments about ability to track the ball. Some receivers get where they are supposed to be, but if the ball is out of frame, they have no shot. Britt has consistently caught balls that were not just out of frame, but way off target. Can the Titans scouts find guys with this kind of ability, past the second round? It does seem doubtful.

CMJ says "OMAN OWNED"  for the 1,146th time.  Is CMJ accurate or is he padding the count? 

Is 2,000 possible?

Will Oilerman demand a recount?


#56
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It's will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think Munchak/company are taking a look at players like Williams to see where/if they are going to fit going forward. I particularly liked some of Cyrus' comments about ability to track the ball. Some receivers get where they are supposed to be, but if the ball is out of frame, they have no shot. Britt has consistently caught balls that were not just out of frame, but way off target. Can the Titans scouts find guys with this kind of ability, past the second round? It does seem doubtful.


The Titans found Williams past the second round and he has already made some remarkable catches this year.

Pick Analysis: "Whether it's a medical issue or the diluted sample in Indianapolis, there's a reason why this guy with second-round talent is going in the sixth round. That's immaterial now. Jake Locker has been unsuccessful there. (New head coach) Ken Whisenhunt is inheriting him. He will have less patience with Locker if he struggles. Locker is on a one-year contract that might not be all 16 games. Mettenberger can make all the throws. He has a world of talent and has been in a pro system under Cam Cameron at LSU." -- Charley Casserly

 


#57
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Functionally, DWill and Washington fill the same role, guys who are better off working the slot and playing off inside coverage. Washington was working that successfully when Britt was in the lineup, and now DWill seems to have grown into that same role. The questions the Titans need to answer are (a) are they fine with a good-quality #1 like Britt and a bunch of waterbug slot guys, and (.b.) where are they with Britt, in terms of his short- and long-term health and his professionalism and commitment to being the best receiver he can be on the field and not getting in trouble off it. Keep in mind that R&S teams, like in Palmer's previous stint with the franchise, were comfortable having a bunch of waterbugs out there, and even now they wouldn't be the only team with a number of guys like that.

Per Houston radio show host Lance Zierlein, who's plugged into the scouting community, Jeff Fuller is currently carrying a late round (like 5th-6th) grade with at least one area scout. From what I've seen of his play that year, that's accurate or maybe a little generous.

ETA: I don't see Meachem as a fit for the offense at all, and strongly suspect some other team will overpay for his services.

#58
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ETA: I don't see Meachem as a fit for the offense at all, and strongly suspect some other team will overpay for his services.


Cost aside I could see Meachem filling the same role they were going to use Curtis in, as well as the failed attempt they have used Avery in. But I agree he'll get too much elsewhere

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#59
abenjami

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I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay in NO. Colston is hard to rely on.

#60
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I would assume that all of the NO receivers stay together. I believe they have the same idea that the Warner Rams and the Colts have had. Keep the offense together as long as Brees is viable. Those receivers have been together for a while in that offense.




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