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Number9

Damian Williams

61 posts in this topic

I'm fine w/ agreeing to disagree but I think 4.6 is a bit of an unneeded exaggeration. 4.4 or 4.5 is probably a good WR base w/ some WRs that can succeed at 4.6

but just b/c they were drafted in the 2nd doesn't mean they were great athletes.

lets look at the evals of those players

Jennings:

http://sportsillustr...yers/18332.html

Sure-handed, quick receiver with outstanding work ethic.... Not a true downfield threat

ran a 4.48

Nelson:

http://www.nfl.com/d...le-tab-analysis

More quick than fast, but must show better explosion coming off the snap, as he lacks a burst

surprsing just how much he "lacks burst" now

Cobb:

http://www.nfl.com/d...d=2495448#tab=1

Good route-runner and can get open against zone, Does not possesses great top-end speed and not overly elusive in the open field

These guys are good b/c they run good routes. They're good athletes (not great) and they have a QB that can read defenses and knows which route will be open.

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Probably Jeff Fuller at this point. Dwight Jones is intriguing but I think teams need to evaluate him off the field to determine his level of commitment and competitiveness. Fuller has great size (6'-4"), good speed (probably 4.5), great tracking ability (can catch the ball in stride over his shoulder, great redzone threat) and solid hands. When you watch him play you can tell that he runs the comeback option on vertical routes and that the offense has built in sight adjustments just like Palmer's offense. (Ex. Slant w/ option to sit down in zone against the blitz). He's smart, is a good route runner for his size (quick feet) and uses his body well.

If he didn't get injured this year he'd probably be a late first rounder (who knows, he still could be). He's had turf toe, a hamstring injury and a concussion so far this season and it's slowed him down and messed with his confidence. He holds the record for TDs at Texas A&M and could leave with most of the receiving records at the school. So he's got a track record of productivity which should insulate him from one bad season.

The Titans could probably get him in the second round and he'd be an easy fit on the outside.

Floyd's a tricky one to project where he goes in the first round

He could go top 10 or he might fall like Dez Bryant

If he falls to the Dez Bryant range (20-25), then he definitely becomes an option

I've watched ND play before, but watching this video made me like him a little bit more 8-)

It is tempting to give Locker two potential big time WR potentially for the next decade

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There's no way we'd keep both for the next decade. We might be able to keep both for a few years if Britt has an off season next year, possibly due to more injuries which reduce his price tag.

And on Floyd, he just doesn't impress me. Sure he's big and has good speed but not great. he'll go up for the ball though... but that probably just comes back to me not being a great judge of WRs. I either look at route running (and he doesn't run a lot of different routes) or speed/ability and he's not that fast. Size is a big factor that I have trouble judging on how it will translate.

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  • Jennings ran a 4.42 at the combine and has the skill set to be an outside receiver (hands, tracking).
  • Jordy Nelson ran a 4.51 (faster than Britt) as a 6'-3" receiver and demonstrated excellent tracking ability and hands while in college.
  • Randall Cobb ran a 4.46 with a very explosive element to his game and is featured slot receiver.

I'm not just talking about speed, I'm talking about a combination of physical ability and skill set. For example, many players can or cannot track and catch a ball over the shoulder. There's usually no middle ground. If you're going to play on the outside you have to have that ability or you're just a slot receiver playing out of position. (Nate Washington).

Green Bay drafts players with the skill set to play outside and the athletic ability / size to stay there.

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There's no way we'd keep both for the next decade. We might be able to keep both for a few years if Britt has an off season next year, possibly due to more injuries which reduce his price tag.

And on Floyd, he just doesn't impress me. Sure he's big and has good speed but not great. he'll go up for the ball though... but that probably just comes back to me not being a great judge of WRs. I either look at route running (and he doesn't run a lot of different routes) or speed/ability and he's not that fast. Size is a big factor that I have trouble judging on how it will translate.

IND did it

STL with Holt and Bruce lasted a long time

Floyd is very talented

He wouldn't be my first or second option, but I wouldn't be opposed to it

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  • Jennings ran a 4.42 at the combine and has the skill set to be an outside receiver (hands, tracking).
  • Jordy Nelson ran a 4.51 (faster than Britt) as a 6'-3" receiver and demonstrated excellent tracking ability and hands while in college.
  • Randall Cobb ran a 4.46 with a very explosive element to his game and is featured slot receiver.

it's easy to say those things now but when they were coming out Jennings was known as not being a true deep threat but he was a hard worker and a quick/sure handed WR. Nelson was seen as quicker than fast and Cobb wasn't seen as overly elusive.

Sure, not that they're w/ Rodgers and have perfected their route running they all of a sudden look so much more explosive and better WRs. imo it's in large part b/c Rodgers can read defenses and they run the right routes and run them well. more than some great athletic ability.

I'm not just talking about speed, I'm talking about a combination of physical ability and skill set.

I'm not either. You said DW didn't show great burst. I'm showing players that didn't show "great burst" in the case of Nelson before hand but then got his route running down and got w/ a QB like Rodgers and all of a sudden he looks so much more explosive. I'm showing that a player like Jennings who was seen as a quick WR w/ good hands and a great work ethic but not a true deep threat can become more when he gets his route running down (good work ethic) and gets w/ a QB that knows which route to look for vs what defense. And Cobb who was, again, a good route runner who wasn't seen as that fast or elusive all of a sudden becomes fast and elusive.

The trend here are hard workers that are quick and have become good route runners imo.

IND did it

STL with Holt and Bruce lasted a long time

Floyd is very talented

He wouldn't be my first or second option, but I wouldn't be opposed to it

Pretty sure both overlapped but they didn't extend either while the other was on the roster. Colts had Harrison and got Wayne but then when Wayne progressed, they ditched Harrison. Rams had Bruce and when Holt progressed, they dropped Bruce.

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it's easy to say those things now but when they were coming out Jennings was known as not being a true deep threat but he was a hard worker and a quick/sure handed WR. Nelson was seen as quicker than fast and Cobb wasn't seen as overly elusive.

Sure, not that they're w/ Rodgers and have perfected their route running they all of a sudden look so much more explosive and better WRs. imo it's in large part b/c Rodgers can read defenses and they run the right routes and run them well. more than some great athletic ability.

I'm not either. You said DW didn't show great burst. I'm showing players that didn't show "great burst" in the case of Nelson before hand but then got his route running down and got w/ a QB like Rodgers and all of a sudden he looks so much more explosive. I'm showing that a player like Jennings who was seen as a quick WR w/ good hands and a great work ethic but not a true deep threat can become more when he gets his route running down (good work ethic) and gets w/ a QB that knows which route to look for vs what defense. And Cobb who was, again, a good route runner who wasn't seen as that fast or elusive all of a sudden becomes fast and elusive.

The trend here are hard workers that are quick and have become good route runners imo.

Pretty sure both overlapped but they didn't extend either while the other was on the roster. Colts had Harrison and got Wayne but then when Wayne progressed, they ditched Harrison. Rams had Bruce and when Holt progressed, they dropped Bruce.

You're probably right about that

ATL is doing the same thing with Julio Jones and Roddy White

Maybe we should wait a few more seasons 8-)

Sign Britt to a long term deal then draft a #1 WR to pair with him and eventually take his spot

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You're probably right about that

ATL is doing the same thing with Julio Jones and Roddy White

Maybe we should wait a few more seasons 8-)

Sign Britt to a long term deal then draft a #1 WR to pair with him and eventually take his spot

It's an option :) but I don't think we can trust Britt enough to extend him at this point unless he's cheap. Dude needs to play a full season first.

I don't think we'd draft a WR in the first w/ thoughts of paring him w/ Britt. I think we do it w/ thoughts of him replacing Britt and then if we're lucky, maybe pairing w/ him for a bit.

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I don't think we can trust Britt enough to extend him at this point unless he's cheap. Dude needs to play a full season first.

Britt's contract is not up until 2014, that's not even an issue

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It's an option :) but I don't think we can trust Britt enough to extend him at this point unless he's cheap. Dude needs to play a full season first.

I don't think we'd draft a WR in the first w/ thoughts of paring him w/ Britt. I think we do it w/ thoughts of him replacing Britt and then if we're lucky, maybe pairing w/ him for a bit.

I definitely wouldn't want do it to replace Britt

I realize he's untrustworthy right now and rightfully so

But he's so damn talented

He's the most talented WR we've had in a very very long time

You can't just let him walk..there were reports earlier that the coaching staff felt he was a top 5-10 WR type talent and I agree

I'm not really thinking about extending/not extending him right now anyway...let these next few seasons play out first and then we'll see 8-)

If we could get him at a reduced rate because of the injury thing like you said earlier, I'd be ok with doing that

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I think we need to establish that SI.com or NFL.com aren't necessarily the baseline for scouting reports for the league. National Football Post, ProFootballWeekly and NFLDraftScout.com (CBSSports) are far more reputable overall. Besides, I can only speak to as what I see when I watch players play. There's a lot of factors that I look at when I watch receivers and it's my personal opinion that Damian Williams would be a better slot receiver (where he could be great), Washington needs to go and that the Titans should add Jeff Fuller in the second based on his skillset, physical ability and this offensive system.

I think that Green Bay has proven that adding weapons with particular physical makeups and skill sets that fit your team is the way to build an offense. I don't think it's all Rodgers ability although he makes the most of his receivers. Rodgers can't make a receiver catch a back shoulder fade no matter how good the ball placement is and unless he has receivers that can make those catches, Rodgers can't make those throws. What the Packers have done is realize receiver and quarterback skill set and put them in a scheme where they can be successful.

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I think we need to establish that SI.com or NFL.com aren't necessarily the baseline for scouting reports for the league. National Football Post, ProFootballWeekly and NFLDraftScout.com (CBSSports) are far more reputable overall.

lol can't attack the comments so attack the source? nfl.com is actually generally mayock who i really like

I don't think it's all Rodgers ability

now you're going to extremes. I didn't say it was all Rodgers.

I said it was a combination of them getting WRs that run good routes and hit their spots and are where they're suppose to be/where Rodgers expects them to be.

These guys weren't great physical athletes coming out. They were good. They were quick and good route runners and hard workers who catch well. And it's this ability combined w/ Rodgers ability that all of a sudden make them seem so explosive.

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I'm not trying to attack you Reo and I'm not trying to undermine you. I'm trying to communicate my thoughts in a global manner and it's not my goal to be disagreeable or argumentative.

Here's my point: It's more than just being in the right spot although that's a heavy component in any timing offense. I firmly believe, and it's my opinion, that there's particularly skill sets for certain positions and generally speaking a particular body type that correlates best to a position.

If you're going to be an outside downfield threat you need to have tracking ability to catch over your shoulder or adjust to throws. If you're not tall you better be explosive/fast (Think Steve Smith, Mike Wallace etc.). If you're not all that fast, you better have size (Kenny Britt, Colston, Terell Owens etc.) Right now Damian Williams is in the not so fast, not so tall category and while he has the skill set to be an outside receivers he doesn't have the ideal make up to be a very consistent, full time outside receiver who can be a great talent at that spot.

And of course, route running relates to all of that and it's a fundamental skill for all receivers. It helps compensate for a number of short comings in receiver but ultimately if you want to play split end you simply need to have certain abilities to be a consistent vertical threat.

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I'm not trying to attack you Reo and I'm not trying to undermine you. I'm trying to communicate my thoughts in a global manner and it's not my goal to be disagreeable or argumentative.

yeah, i wasn't saying you were. I was saying I brought up sources that refuted what you were saying about Nelson and the others and you then attacked that source instead of backing up what you were saying w/ other sources.

Here's my point: It's more than just being in the right spot although that's a heavy component in any timing offense. I firmly believe, and it's my opinion, that there's particularly skill sets for certain positions and generally speaking a particular body type that correlates best to a position.

If you're going to be an outside downfield threat you need to have tracking ability to catch over your shoulder or adjust to throws. If you're not tall you better be explosive/fast (Think Steve Smith, Mike Wallace etc.). If you're not all that fast, you better have size (Kenny Britt, Colston, Terell Owens etc.) Right now Damian Williams is in the not so fast, not so tall category and while he has the skill set to be an outside receivers he doesn't have the ideal make up to be a very consistent, full time outside receiver who can be a great talent at that spot.

And of course, route running relates to all of that and it's a fundamental skill for all receivers. It helps compensate for a number of short comings in receiver but ultimately if you want to play split end you simply need to have certain abilities to be a consistent vertical threat.

And my point is that when the route running is there and they get the right routes called consistently against the correct coverages and the QBs read it right and find the right guys and everything is going smoothly... the WRs look so much more explosive and athletic when they're really just the same athletes playing the position better. Sure you'll have some Kenny Britts or TOs that come out and physically dominate or you'll have the Mike Wallaces that come out and blow past people but generally... that's not what's needed. You need guys who can get where they're suppose to be when they're suppose to be there. And that's why imo DW is playing better and if he continues to get better at it... ppl will all of a sudden see him as an explosive WR when really his physical ability didn't change, just his perfection of his craft.

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I'm not trying to attack you Reo and I'm not trying to undermine you. I'm trying to communicate my thoughts in a global manner and it's not my goal to be disagreeable or argumentative.

Here's my point: It's more than just being in the right spot although that's a heavy component in any timing offense. I firmly believe, and it's my opinion, that there's particularly skill sets for certain positions and generally speaking a particular body type that correlates best to a position.

If you're going to be an outside downfield threat you need to have tracking ability to catch over your shoulder or adjust to throws. If you're not tall you better be explosive/fast (Think Steve Smith, Mike Wallace etc.). If you're not all that fast, you better have size (Kenny Britt, Colston, Terell Owens etc.) Right now Damian Williams is in the not so fast, not so tall category and while he has the skill set to be an outside receivers he doesn't have the ideal make up to be a very consistent, full time outside receiver who can be a great talent at that spot.

And of course, route running relates to all of that and it's a fundamental skill for all receivers. It helps compensate for a number of short comings in receiver but ultimately if you want to play split end you simply need to have certain abilities to be a consistent vertical threat.

Do you think Kendall Wright can play outside?

Doesn't have the ideal size, but he is a burner

A guy I'd look at in a possible trade is Johnny Knox of CHI

He's been demoted to #4 WR...Roy Williams and Hester start with Bennett in the slot

He's got terrific speed

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