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Episode 70 - Stick a Fork in 'Em

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#1
Jonboy

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Another week and another loss for the lowly Tennessee Titans. Despite a heroic comeback, the Titans fell short of a win against the Cardinals. Jonboy and Jamal recap the loss and breakdown all the other news surrounding the Titans including Tommy Smith's press conference, the benching of Zach Brown, and a new quarterback signing. They also discuss Mike Munchak's future and one member of the Two Tone Crew evens goes as far to say that Munch is done in Tennessee. A quick preview of the Jags and upset picks close out the show.

 

 
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#2
IsntLifeFunny

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@Jamalisms

I noticed you failed to mention that no one is defending Brown's play. I also noticed how you left out the fact his stats are much better than Ayers or the combination of Fokou and McCarthy. He has the most tackles per play (rare for a WLB), sacks on less rushing attempts, and pics with less snaps. You discussed the fact the whole group has underperformed, yet said nothing about how no one else has been called out. That is the issue and not just the benching. No one is saying he's played well.

#3
Jamalisms

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Defending Brown and saying his benching is unwarranted/wrong are literally inseparable.

Are the other players being benched for not playing within the defense? No. Have we heard that this is an issue with them? No. Is there reason to suspect it beyond a desire to defend Brown's conduct? No. Is Brown playing will enough when not playing within the defense to excuse his not playing within the defense? No. Has Brown earned the benefit of the doubt? No. Is he good enough that the defensive staff should just let him do what he wants? No. Should a defensive staff be able to expect players to do as they are instructed? Yes.

If a player makes a tackle does that mean he shouldn't have been in better position to make the tackle earlier (and/or prevent the catch)? No.

These objections are almost all complete red herrings as far as I'm concerned. Is he doing what he is supposed to? If the answer is no (which it is) and the defensive staff tells him to stop and he doesn't, go sit on the bench. End of story.
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#4
oldschool

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I don't believe Brown was benched due to performance. It has everything to do with his attitude in response to the coaches telling him he's not playing the way they want him to.

#5
IsntLifeFunny

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Yes, let's ignore all of the relevant stats once again.

Are you denying he's been the best LB on the field?

#6
oldschool

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Yes, let's ignore all of the relevant stats once again.

Are you denying he's been the best LB on the field?


Who are you addressing?

#7
IsntLifeFunny

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Who are you addressing?


Jamal

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#8
Jamalisms

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For "nobody defending his play," there's an awful lot of trying to discuss stats and comparisons to other players. Strange.

By all accounts he has been benched for not playing within the defense. It's the nature, not the quality.

The issue isn't ignoring stats. It's ignoring the actual issue by trying to defend his play with stats... all the while saying you aren't defending his play, which is bizarre.

Play as you are instructed or gtfo. Welcome to sports at any level. Meanwhile the guy is making stuff up about not knowing what's going on and talking about auditioning for other teams. The guy needs to get his head screwed back on. Until then he is the problem.

Why someone wants to defend that is beyond me.
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#9
IsntLifeFunny

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Using stats to show one player is better than the others isn't defending the player when you've already stated, several times now, that he's sucked for most of the year. So, you can get over that, because it's not the case.

Also, how bad does it make our coaching look when the guy with the best stats of any LB is the one saying fuck the coaches terrible system? I'm right about this, even if you are, as well. He shouldn't be freelancing, but he's outplaying the other guys who apparently aren't in every major statistic that matters for a LB. Why are the other LBs not being called out? Just because they've kept their mouth shut and sucked inside of this terrible system without freelancing? Yep.

#10
oldschool

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ILS you are confusing a bad staff/system with blatent insubordination. Forget about Ayers and Fokou. They are irrelevant to this discussion.

Edited by oldschool, Dec 21 2013 - 06:07 PM.


#11
Jamalisms

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ILS you are confusing a bad staff/system with blatent insubordination. Forget about Ayers and Fokou. They are irrelevant to this discussion.

Ding
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#12
IsntLifeFunny

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Meh, like I said, he's been the best backer on the field. That is indisputable.

Of course it's insubordination. I still think the situation is bullshit, because no one else is being taken to account for their terrible play. The reason that is, is because it would then point the finger back at the rightful owners of the LB debacle: the coaches.

#13
IsntLifeFunny

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That's always been my point.

#14
oldschool

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Meh, like I said, he's been the best backer on the field. That is indisputable.

Of course it's insubordination. I still think the situation is bullshit, because no one else is being taken to account for their terrible play. The reason that is, is because it would then point the finger back at the rightful owners of the LB debacle: the coaches.


Still missing the point. For arguments sake lets say Ayers/Fokou/McCarthy are all responding to coaching and acknowledging where they need to improve. Now let's say Brown is unwilling to do the same despite his poor play, even if it's better than the othe lbs, and is being vocal about it. It's easy to understand why he was benched. It still seems petty to me but it's acceptable at the same time.

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#15
IsntLifeFunny

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My friend, it gets tiring when you say that first line so often. I'm not missing either of your points. Both are valid. My points are as well. This debacle lies at the feet of the coaches. The other players aren't being called out for playing worse than the guy freelancing, because if the coaches admit every single linebacker we have is underwhelming, then well, what happens? Oh yeah, it gets laid at the feet of the coaches, which is my point.
I'm done arguing about this. I don't have a problem with the benching. I have a problem with the entire LB core sucking and not being held accountable because our coaches are hanging on by a thread and can't admit they've failed, which would be the case if they were to call out the terrible play of the other backers. Seeing as Chet was Munchak's old college buddy roommate, I'd say my points are valid that Brown's play is being scapegoated for the LB core's problems. Munchak didn't only talk about him freelancing, he talked about how his level of play hasn't been acceptable...well if that's the case, then obviously it should apply to the others. Not sure how there is an argument against that. If Munchak comes out and says "he wasn't following orders so we benched him" then fine. He didn't. He directly called out his play, which has statistically been better than the other LBs by a fairly wide margin.

#16
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I don't think there is enough information to really know for sure what's going on. Munchak said right after the game he didn't know why Brown was benched, which is a riot.

 

Webster said the other day that Stingley is also going to get a lot of PT at RT and Munchak announced that Fitz would continue to play QB, gee I wonder why he said that.

 

Has Brown missed assignments, sure. So has probably almost everyone else. The difference is most of the starters don't have a high draft pick Webster wants to see play behind them.

 

Whatever the real reasons are for the benching he likely wouldn't be getting benched if Gooden wasn't behind him.


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#17
oldschool

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Gooden is irrelevant. It's about how Brown responded to bring told he played poorly. As I said before it's easy to get Gooden on the field if they want to evaluate him.

#18
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That's speculation


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#19
cenj

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Gooden is irrelevant. It's about how Brown responded to bring told he played poorly. As I said before it's easy to get Gooden on the field if they want to evaluate him.

 

I think the fact they started McCarthy and not Gooden is further proof of this point.

 

Brown pissed people off. It isn't about giving the backup time (though that is a secondary consideration), it's about benching Brown.


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#20
Jonboy

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I don't think there is enough information to really know for sure what's going on. 


That's how I feel about it and what I mentioned on the podcast. We're only getting one side of the story. Very easy for a coach to get their side of things out. Much more difficult for a player to do the same...unless they want to totally destroy bridges. 


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